Avengers vs Star Wars (2) Los Vengadores contra Star Wars (2) アベンジャーズ vs スター・ウォーズ (2) Keršytojai prieš Žvaigždžių karus (2) Vingadores vs Guerra das Estrelas (2) Yenilmezler Yıldız Savaşlarına Karşı (2) Месники проти Зоряних воєн (2) 复仇者联盟 vs 星球大战 (2)

So, if you think Darth is a more evil villain THAN him, I say NOS. ‘Cause you know… Than… Nos. Porque você sabe… Do que… Não.

**Seth:** Wow, that's it. Seth: Uau, é isso. That's the starting point. That's going to be hard to follow.

**Molly:** You got your work cut out for you in judging today, Seth. That was a very snappy argument, an infinitely awesome argument for Thanos. Esse foi um argumento muito rápido, um argumento infinitamente incrível para Thanos. Seth, what impressed you specifically about Merk's declaration?

**Seth:** One of the things that I looked at, I was like the last part-- in debate, we call this framework, how do you want the judge to judge the round. Because this round is about who's the best villain, Merk said, "Best villain is those that brings the best in the heroes." I may be wrong. I was engrossed in this whole thing with the sound effects and everything. You got your work cut out for you.

(laughter)

**Molly:** Nyge, I know you are eager to tear Merk's tribute to Thanos apart. You have 30 seconds for your rebuttal. Your time starts now.

**Nyge:** I got to say, yawn, like--

**Merk:** What?

(laughter)

**Nyge:** What do I know about Thanos? He was a mean guy, yes. That's pretty much all I heard, said about five or six different ways. What I think is the most important part of being an amazing villain or the best villain is if you're multifaceted, and when you said, "Oh, yes, Thanos, you might be getting a soft spot--" I didn't fill a soft spot for Thanos at all. O que eu acho que é a parte mais importante de ser um vilão incrível ou o melhor vilão é se você é multifacetado, e quando você disse: "Ah, sim, Thanos, você pode estar tendo um ponto fraco -" Eu não sabia preencher um ponto fraco para Thanos. I'm not really worried about--

**Molly:** Time.

**Merk:** You're the heartless one. Merk: Você é o sem coração. What?

(laughter)

**Molly:** The rebuttal is strong with this one. Lucky for you, you can strike back in your Declaration of Greatness for the Sith Lord, Darth Vader. Let's hear it.

**Nyge:** This is going to be easy. All I have to do is argue that Darth Vader is a better villain than big purple grape dude on steroids aka Thanos, however you want to say it. Tudo o que tenho a fazer é argumentar que Darth Vader é um vilão melhor do que o grande cara uva roxa em esteróides, também conhecido como Thanos, como você quiser dizer. But that's not even what I am going to argue. That would be way too easy. My argument is that Darth Vader is the best Villain ever. Like of all time.

Let's start with his very first scene in the very first Star Wars movie from 1977.

Stormtroopers just invaded the rebel ship. Stormtroopers acabaram de invadir a nave rebelde. They're firing lasers - they're ducking, crawling, all the good stuff — they're marching down the halls. Eles estão disparando lasers - eles estão se abaixando, rastejando, todas as coisas boas - eles estão marchando pelos corredores. Things are bad. Then - things get worse.

In walks the toughest looking dude OF ALL TIME. He has a huge black helmet that covers his entire face. He has an all black cape that is just flowing in the wind. He has to talk and breathe through a speaking box.

**Darth Vader:** __Commander, tear this ship apart until you've found those plans! And bring me the passengers, I want them alive!__

**Nyge:** Darth Vader calls the shots -- and people listen -- because he's got the power to back it up. He's super strong and super smart. He's an ace pilot. He's unstoppable with his lightsaber -- which is like this glowy thing that slices through anything. And he's a master of __the force__.

The force, let me break it down for y'all, is this energy that binds the entire Star Wars universe together. Darth Vader can use it to stop laser blasts, influence minds, and he can even pick up heavy things with his mind -- and throw enemies across the room without lifting a finger. That's power.

He's so much more than just a villain. He is basically the blueprint for a character arc that has shaped film as we see it today. Ele é basicamente o projeto de um arco de personagem que moldou o filme como o vemos hoje. By the end of his saga, we're actually rooting for him. No final de sua saga, estamos realmente torcendo por ele.

To explain, I'm going to take it all the way back to the beginning. Before he was Darth Vader he was Anakin Skywalker -- aka the chosen one. Antes de ser Darth Vader, ele era Anakin Skywalker - também conhecido como o escolhido.

His story begins when he meets this Queen named Padme Amidala. Padme is in a dusty, sandy workshop on a remote desert planet. Padme está em uma oficina empoeirada e arenosa em um remoto planeta deserto. She's looking at some equipment in the shop, when all of a sudden a four foot little blonde boy with a bowl cut walks down some stairs and asks Padme -- with the sweetest look in his little eyes... Ela está olhando para alguns equipamentos na loja, quando de repente um garotinho loiro de um metro e meio com um corte de tigela desce algumas escadas e pergunta a Padme - com o olhar mais doce em seus olhinhos...

__**Anakin:** Are you an angel?__

__**Padme:** What?__

__**Anakin:** An angel. I hear the deep space pilots talk about them. They're the most beautiful things in the universe.__

Padme blushes. Padme cora. And we all, as an audience, blush along with her. E todos nós, como público, coramos junto com ela.

And from then on that little bowl cut boy has our hearts. E a partir daí aquele garotinho cortado em tigela tem nossos corações. And he grows up to be a powerful Jedi. He falls in love with Padme and they marry. But his weakness is his heart. He loves Padme so much and when he has visions of her dying -- he gets scared. He looks for a way to save her. He was lured to the Dark Side with the promise that if he embraced the evil -- he would be so strong that nobody would be able to hurt the people he loved ever again.

As the audience, we know it's a bad decision -- but also, we get why he does it. I mean, we've all made bad choices before, right?

__**Rebecca:** I think Darth Vader and the dark side wouldn't be so interesting to us if they didn't represent things in the real world around us that we'd really like to understand.__

**Nyge:** That's Rebecca Krause. She's a PhD Candidate at Northwestern University and she's written about why we love fictional villains. And she's here to help me out.

__**Rebecca:** In general, villains are more appealing when they are closer to us. Because it makes it easier to at least partly understand their actions. And if the villain seems like they're just randomly doing bad things that's less interesting...__

**Nyge:** Darth Vader is the perfect example. The thing that makes him an amazing villain is you can somewhat understand his reasoning. O que o torna um vilão incrível é que você pode entender um pouco o raciocínio dele. He has depth. Ele tem profundidade. He's not just evil for the sake of being evil -- you can truly understand his pain. Ele não é mau apenas por ser mau - você pode realmente entender sua dor.

And this is where it really gets tragic. E é aqui que realmente fica trágico. After going bad -- he does lose Padme -- and then he loses an epic fight with his former teacher, Obi Wan Kenobi. By the end, he's so wounded he has to wear that famous black suit for the rest of his life -- just to keep breathing. He became Darth Vader.

The story's not over yet though. Years later -- Vader's own son -- Luke Skywalker -- becomes a Jedi himself. Eventually, Luke takes on the evil Emperor Palpatine -- Vader's boss basically. But the Emperor is way more powerful and he zaps Luke with evil energy. Luke is seconds away from death.

That's when Vader sacrifices everything -- __once__ __again__! This time to save his son. He picks up that gnarly old Emperor and tosses him down a shaft to his DOOM! Vader is mortally wounded in the battle and his last wish is to see his son with his own eyes -- without the mask.

__**Vader:** Now go my son. Leave me.__

__**Luke:** No. You're coming with me. I'll not leave you here. I've got to save you.__

__**Vader:** You already have.__

**Nyge:** ‘Scuse me while I wipe this single tear from my eye! Nyge: 'Desculpe-me enquanto enxugo esta única lágrima do meu olho! (Sniff) So good!

You see -- unlike Thanos, who pretty much stays the same through all his movies -- Vader changes. He learns. He grows. He's deep and multifaceted. __He's not just a good villain, he's a good character.__

That's why he's not just better than Thanos. He's the best villain of all time.

**Molly:** Wow. A forceful argument for Darth Vader. Seth, what stood out for you in Nyge's declaration?

**Seth:** I really, really, really love how Nyge stated why Darth Vader is both powerful and at the same time, menacing. Seth: Eu realmente, realmente, realmente amo como Nyge afirmou por que Darth Vader é poderoso e ao mesmo tempo ameaçador. Dude, guy got a black helmet, a black robe basically be like the mascot for some kind of band or anything. Cara, o cara tem um capacete preto, uma túnica preta basicamente como o mascote de algum tipo de banda ou qualquer coisa. I especially loved the last part when he brought up he represents real-world problems-- I see what's going on here. Eu amei especialmente a última parte quando ele mencionou que ele representa problemas do mundo real - eu vejo o que está acontecendo aqui. It's a tough decision right now, but really good, really good.

**Molly:** Well, let's see what Merk has to say. Merk, you've got 30 seconds to Hulk out on Nyge's arguments. Merk, tens 30 segundos para o Hulk decidir sobre os argumentos do Nyge. Your time starts now.

**Merk:** Okay. Vader is actually weak. He's so weak because he can't even breathe without his helmet. Ele está tão fraco porque nem consegue respirar sem o capacete. All the force and all that stuff goes away because he's dead without it. There's one. Two, Darth Vader isn't even in all the __Star Wars__ movies. Dois, Darth Vader nem está em todos os filmes de Star Wars. We're looking at you know all the whole franchise. Estamos olhando para você conhecer toda a franquia. He's only in the first three. Boom, they didn't even want him in it that much. Boom, eles nem o queriam tanto assim. Thanos is there like way more than that. Thanos está lá muito mais do que isso. We have more __Avengers__ movies to enjoy. Temos mais filmes dos Vingadores para curtir. __Anakin__ arguably was a whole different person in is his past life- Anakin sem dúvida era uma pessoa totalmente diferente em sua vida passada.

**Molly:** Time.

**Merk:** -and he treated Padmé like garbage. Merk: -e ele tratou Padmé como lixo.

**Molly:** Excellent work, both of you. Seth, you have a hard decision to make. You have two points to award this round. One for the best rebuttal and one for the best Declaration of Greatness. Think about some of the things you liked and disliked about what you heard, where the passion was. Consult your notes. Now, mark down, two points but don't tell us who they're going to just yet.

**Seth:** I'm good.

**Molly:** Listeners at home, if you need more time to think, you can always press pause. Merk and Nyge did not make these decisions easy on us today. Merk and Nyge, how are you feeling so far?

**Merk:** I'm hot and I'm sweaty because I'm like--

**Seth:** Welcome to debate.

**Nyge:** A little shocked that Merk did that rebuttal like that because that wasn't even true but we're going to let it fly. Nyge: Um pouco chocado que Merk tenha feito aquela refutação porque isso nem era verdade, mas vamos deixá-lo voar. We're going to let it fly because this isn't the last time for the debate. Vamos deixar rolar porque esta não é a última vez para o debate.

**Merk:** You basically argue that Darth was a hero. That is not a villain.

**Nyge:** We said best villain.

**Seth:** Hey, the one thing I've learned, everything is debatable.

**Molly:** All right, debaters hang up the helmet and cape, put away your infinity gauntlet. We're leaving the villains behind. Next up, the heroes face off but first, we're going to take a quick break.

**Seth:** Yes, we'll be right back with more __Smash Boom Best.__

**ANNOUNCER:** This is STATE OF DEBATE, home to ragin' rhetoric and awe-inspiring argumentation!

**TODD:** Todd Douglas here, along with 431-time debate champ, Taylor Lincoln!

**TAYLOR:** We're live, right outside the giraffe exhibit at the Bronx Zoo!

**TODD:** Apparently, Glinda the giraffe has been having a heated debate with Pietro the pigeon for __days__ about an eternally tricky question --

**TAYLOR:** --are wild animals happier than animals living in captivity?

**TODD:** Let's find out!

**PIETRO PIGEON:** Wild animals, like me, are free! Zoos? They are prisons!

**GLINDA GIRAFFE:** Look, Mr. Pigeon. This zoo is my home. I'm well taken care of. I love my zookeepers. I am just as happy as you are -- maybe even more so!

**PIETRO PIGEON:** Nonsense! ** **You couldn't be! Don't you ever think about breaking free and roaming the streets of New York! ?

**GLINDA GIRAFFE:** No! I am happy right where I am. With my long neck, I've got great views.

**PIETRO PIGEON:** Ack! Zoo animals are opposed to freedom. You refuse to imagine all the things you're missing! None of you have any imagination!

(buzzer)

**TODD:** Logical fallacy alert!

**TAYLOR:** Yes! Logical fallacies are weak debate strategies that make it easy for your opponents to undermine your argument. There are a ton of different kinds--

**TODD:** And** **Pietro the pigeon just used one called a HASTY GENERALIZATION.

**TAYLOR:** Hasty generalizations are when you make BIG, SWEEPING statements about a group--

**TODD:** --without enough evidence. So when Pietro said, “Zoo animals are opposed to freedom,” and “None of you have any imagination!” Those were hasty generalizations.

**TAYLOR:** Not all zoo animals are the same!

**TODD:** No! And they're certainly not all “opposed to freedom.” Quick, let's hear what Glinda the giraffe has to say about that ridiculous claim:

**GLINDA:** Pietro! Enough! The only animal I can speak for, is myself. ** **I am not opposed to freedom and I do not begrudge you yours! Wild animals can get hit by buses, they can starve, they can be hunted down by poachers with guns, and lose their homes to bad weather and accidents. Me? Here in this zoo? I am protected and pampered. And that safety makes me happy. Animals can be happy in the wild AND in captivity. It is not an __either or__ situation. The End.