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Better at English, 041 – Make the most of your motivation – a conversation with BJ Fogg (part 1 of

041 – Make the most of your motivation – a conversation with BJ Fogg (part 1 of

Hi English learners! Lori here, your teacher from Betteratenglish.com. You are in for a treat with this episode of Real English Conversations. It's a really special episode, and I'm so happy to be sharing it with you.

A while back I had the huge honor of having a conversation with one of my own personal heroes, Dr. BJ Fogg. BJ is the director of the Persuasive Tech Lab at Stanford University. Put simply, he's a scientist who spends a lot of time studying how to help people create desirable habits and getting those habits to stick. The concept of motivation plays an important role in BJ's work. I think most people would agree that motivation is incredibly important for successful language learning, maybe even the most important thing. When you're highly motivated, it's easy. But when your motivation is low, it's not so easy.

BJ has lots of practical advice about how you can make most of your motivation, no matter if it's high or low. His way of thinking about motivation as a wave blew my mind when I first came across it. The motivation wave can easily be applied to language learning, so I am super excited to share it with you.

As always, you can find the full transcript of this conversation, including a bonus vocabulary lesson at betteratenglish.com/transcripts.

OK, you're about to hear part one of the conversation. I'll pop in again at the end to give you four things you can do to get the most benefit from this episode.

Are you ready? Let's go!

Lori: Can– can people depend on motivation when they're trying to learn things and do things that are difficult?

BJ: Well, in order to do anything difficult, you have to have motivation or you won't do them. So either, if it's…if the behavior or task is difficult, you've got to find some way to summon up some motivation; or if you make the task simpler, you won't need so much motivation. So you basically have two options: boost your motivation or make the task easier to do.

Lori: Okay yeah, that– that makes a lot of sense. And I— I noticed in your video, you said that…people often, like teachers or people trying to initiate behavior change or help people change their behavior, that, you don't like to hear them talking about, “motivating behavior change,” you prefer the term “facilitating” behavior change. I wonder if you could talk a little bit about that.

BJ: Yeah. In English, there's a common phrase that people use when they talk about behavior change, “We need to motivate behavior change.” And yes, you could motivate behavior change but there's other ways to get behavior to happen. And if you're looking at long-term behaviors or getting people to create habits, focusing on motivation is the wrong focus. You really need to look at, how do we make the behavior easy to do? And also, it's related to the habits — how do we make the behavior rewarding or emotionally satisfying? And so, the thing that I'm worried about is by using that phrase, “motivate behavior change,” people are really limiting themselves in how they think about the different ways to design for behavior change.

Lori: It's interesting to me, coming from, you know, having a background as a teacher. I can remember from my initial teacher training, we were often…it was either implied or— or sometimes even overtly stated that the idea was, “You have to motivate your students. You have to do things to keep their motivation up.” And— and of course, you know, [as a teacher] you want to be motivating and inspiring to people. But when I saw your video, your presentation about the motivation wave, it's kind of like, a little bell went off that– you know, that it makes so much sense. Could you just explain just the basic, basic idea about the motivation wave — talking about the peaks and valleys, and difficult and hard?

BJ: Everyone, I think, has experienced this phenomenon in their life where they get excited about doing some behavior or some set of behaviors like, getting healthier or reducing stress. Now that excitement, as it goes up, I decided to call that, a “motivation wave” because it will go up but it will also come back down. So, it's not a constant thing. And what the motivation wave allows you to do, when the motivation wave is high — you can do hard things, you can spend lots of time, you can put in a lot of effort, you can persist through hardship if your motivation is high. And as your motivation comes down, you can't do the hard things anymore, you only can do simple things. And so the key to understand…there's a few keys: Number one, that motivation won't always be high. That goes up and down. And then two, when motivation is high, that's the right time to get yourself or other people to do hard things. And when motivation is low, you can't do hard things; what you can do are simple things. And so designing — if you're trying to get yourself to study more or exercise more or what have you and your motivation's really low, then you should take, let's say, the study task, and break it down to just three minutes and say, “Okay, I'm only going to study for three minutes. And within three minutes, I'm done.” Instead of forcing yourself or saying, “Oh, I have to study for an hour,” and then your brain finds excuses not to do it at all. Like, zero. Lori: Oh yeah.

BJ: And so what happens in a lot of people that say “Great! I'm just going to do three minutes,” once they get started, they're like, “Oh! I'll do another three minutes…oh! I'll do another three minutes.” So there's a momentum they build up by doing the small steps. And the motivation actually goes up and they may end up studying an entire hour or longer because that's how their motivation and their interests changed as they were doing it.

Lori: Yeah, I know. I have noticed that myself, many, many times when I have some kind of task that I'm putting off because it seems like it's too difficult or I'm just not motivated. But if you can just force yourself to, to sit down and say, “Okay, I'm just going to at least get started; do one tiny little thing,” it's so true, that often does happen, that once you get going, you sort of build a momentum and you end up doing a lot more than you planned in the beginning.

BJ: Yeah, so that's what you do when motivation's low. When motivation's high, when you're in high motivation, that's the time to change your environment, get the materials you need, get the…let me give you an example.

Lori: Sure.

BJ: One of the habits I'm doing right now is, I'm practicing whiteboarding. I'm practicing with markers writing on a whiteboard. You know, like teachers do. Lori: Right.

BJ: And I want my handwriting to get much, much better and so, I'm practicing every day. And in fact, I'm doing it right now.

Lori: Yeah?

BJ: Just— yeah, because this is how I practice. But anyway, what I did was…

That's the end of part one of this conversation with Dr. BJ Fogg. Did you notice how nervous I sounded? That's because BJ is one of my heroes, and I kind of felt like a little fangirl talking to one of my favorite rockstars.

Until next time, here are four ideas for things you can do to get the most benefit from this conversation.

1. If listening to this episode was challenging for you, you can prepare for part two by studying the transcript and listening repeatedly to the conversation. If any words are really causing trouble for your understanding, make sure to look them up. If you do this over the next few days, the second part of the conversation should be easier because more of the language will be familiar.

2. Make a prediction! Based on what you heard in this conversation so far, what do you think BJ did to make it easier to practice his whiteboarding every day? There is a big clue toward the end of the conversation. Then next week, listen to see if you were right.

3. If you need to talk about charts and graphs to pass an exam, here's a great chance to practice. Think about your own motivation to learn English, and how it changes over time. Is it steady, or does it fluctuate? If it fluctuates, how dramatic are the changes? How often? Draw a simple graph of your English learning motivation and practice explaining it to a friend. Or post it on my Facebook page and explain it there!

4. In the transcript and on the website I've put a link to a Youtube video where BJ explains the motivation wave in detail. BJ is a great speaker, and if your listening is intermediate or above, I encourage you to watch the video so you can learn more about how to make the most of your motivation. Watching the video will also help you prepare for part two of our conversation. That brings us to the end of this episode of Real English Conversations. Make sure to download the transcript for this episode so you can read along to check your understanding. The transcript also has notes about the language we use in the conversation, and explains a lot of the vocabulary.

You can find the transcript at betteratenglish.com/transcripts.

Until next time, have fun practicing your English! If you have questions or suggestions about what you would like to hear in these podcasts, I'd love to hear them. You can find all the ways to get in touch with me Betteratenglish.com/contact. Bye for now!

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041 – Make the most of your motivation – a conversation with BJ Fogg (part 1 of Faites|||||||||||| 041 - Machen Sie das Beste aus Ihrer Motivation - ein Gespräch mit BJ Fogg (Teil 1 von 041 - Aproveche al máximo su motivación - una conversación con BJ Fogg (parte 1 de 041 - Tirez le meilleur parti de votre motivation - une conversation avec BJ Fogg (partie 1 de l'article) 041 - Sfruttate al massimo la vostra motivazione - una conversazione con BJ Fogg (parte 1 di 041 - モチベーションを最大限に生かす - BJ・フォッグとの対話(前編 041 - Wykorzystaj w pełni swoją motywację - rozmowa z BJ Foggiem (cz. 1) 041 - Tire o máximo partido da sua motivação - uma conversa com BJ Fogg (parte 1 de 041 — Максимально используйте свою мотивацию — разговор с Би Джей Фоггом (часть 1 из 041 - Motivasyonunuzdan en iyi şekilde yararlanın - BJ Fogg ile bir sohbet (1. bölüm 041 - Максимально використовуйте свою мотивацію - розмова з Бі Джей Фоггом (частина 1 з 041 – 充分发挥你的动力 – 与 BJ Fogg 的对话(第 1 部分)

Hi English learners! Hallo Englischlerner! Olá, alunos de inglês! Lori here, your teacher from Betteratenglish.com. Lori hier, deine Lehrerin von Betteratenglish.com. Ici Lori, votre professeur de Betteratenglish.com. Это Лори, твой учитель из Betterateenglish.com. You are in for a treat with this episode of Real English Conversations. Vous|||||un régal||||||| Mit dieser Folge von Real English Conversations können Sie sich verwöhnen lassen. Vous allez vous régaler avec cet épisode de Real English Conversations. Ti aspetta una sorpresa con questo episodio di Real English Conversations. あなたはリアルイングリッシュカンバセーションのこのエピソードでおもてなしをしています。 Você vai se deliciar com este episódio de Real English Conversations. Вас ждет угощение в этом выпуске Real English Conversations. It's a really special episode, and I'm so happy to be sharing it with you. C'est un épisode vraiment spécial, et je suis très heureux de le partager avec vous. Это действительно особенный эпизод, и я так счастлив поделиться им с вами. 这是一个非常特别的插曲,我很高兴与你分享。

A while back I had the huge honor of having a conversation with one of my own personal heroes, Dr. BJ Fogg. |il y a quelque temps|||||||||||||||||||| Il y a quelque temps, j'ai eu l'immense honneur de m'entretenir avec l'un de mes héros personnels, le Dr BJ Fogg. しばらく前、私は自分の個人的なヒーローの1人であるBJフォッグ博士と会話することを非常に光栄に思いました。 Há algum tempo, tive a grande honra de ter uma conversa com um de meus heróis pessoais, o Dr. BJ Fogg. Некоторое время назад мне выпала огромная честь поговорить с одним из моих личных героев, доктором Б. Дж. Фоггом. BJ is the director of the Persuasive Tech Lab at Stanford University. |||||le|||||| BJは、スタンフォード大学の説得力のある技術研究所の所長です。 BJ é o diretor do Persuasive Tech Lab da Stanford University. БиДжей — директор Лаборатории технологий убеждения в Стэнфордском университете. Put simply, he's a scientist who spends a lot of time studying how to help people create desirable habits and getting those habits to stick. |||||||||||||||||souhaitables|||||||tenir |||||||||||||||||desejáveis|||||||permanecer En d'autres termes, il s'agit d'un scientifique qui consacre beaucoup de temps à étudier comment aider les gens à créer des habitudes souhaitables et à faire en sorte que ces habitudes perdurent. In parole povere, è uno scienziato che trascorre molto tempo a studiare come aiutare le persone a creare abitudini desiderabili e a mantenere quelle abitudini. 簡単に言えば、彼は人々が望ましい習慣を作り、それらの習慣を定着させるのを助ける方法を研究することに多くの時間を費やしている科学者です。 Simplificando, ele é um cientista que passa muito tempo estudando como ajudar as pessoas a criar hábitos desejáveis e fazer com que esses hábitos continuem. Проще говоря, он ученый, который тратит много времени на изучение того, как помочь людям создать желаемые привычки и заставить их придерживаться. The concept of motivation plays an important role in BJ's work. ||||||||in|| Le concept de motivation joue un rôle important dans le travail de BJ. O conceito de motivação desempenha um papel importante no trabalho de BJ. Концепция мотивации играет важную роль в работе Б.Дж. I think most people would agree that motivation is incredibly important for successful language learning, maybe even the most important thing. |||||||||unglaublich||||||||||| Je pense que la plupart des gens seraient d'accord pour dire que la motivation est incroyablement importante pour réussir l'apprentissage d'une langue, peut-être même la chose la plus importante. Я думаю, что большинство людей согласится с тем, что мотивация невероятно важна для успешного изучения языка, может быть, даже самая важная вещь. When you're highly motivated, it's easy. Quand on est très motivé, c'est facile. Quando você está altamente motivado, é fácil. Когда вы сильно мотивированы, это легко. But when your motivation is low, it's not so easy. Mais lorsque votre motivation est faible, ce n'est pas si facile. Но когда ваша мотивация низкая, это не так просто.

BJ has lots of practical advice about how you can make most of your motivation, no matter if it's high or low. BJ hat viele praktische Ratschläge, wie Sie das Beste aus Ihrer Motivation machen können, ganz gleich, ob sie hoch oder niedrig ist. BJ donne de nombreux conseils pratiques sur la manière de tirer le meilleur parti de votre motivation, qu'elle soit forte ou faible. BJ tem muitos conselhos práticos sobre como você pode aproveitar ao máximo sua motivação, não importa se ela é alta ou baixa. У BJ есть много практических советов о том, как максимально использовать свою мотивацию, независимо от того, высокая она или низкая. His way of thinking about motivation as a wave blew my mind when I first came across it. |||||||||étonna|||||||| |||||motivation|||||||||||| Seine Art, Motivation als Welle zu betrachten, hat mich umgehauen, als ich zum ersten Mal darauf gestoßen bin. Sa façon de concevoir la motivation comme une vague m'a époustouflé la première fois que je l'ai rencontrée. Il suo modo di pensare alla motivazione come un'onda mi ha sconvolto quando l'ho incontrato per la prima volta. Sua maneira de pensar sobre a motivação como uma onda me surpreendeu quando me deparei com ela. Его взгляд на мотивацию как на волну поразил меня, когда я впервые столкнулся с ней. 当我第一次遇到他时,他将动机视为波浪的方式让我大吃一惊。 The motivation wave can easily be applied to language learning, so I am super excited to share it with you. ||vague||||appliquée||||||||||||| モチベーションウェーブは語学学習に簡単に適用できるので、皆さんと共有できることをとてもうれしく思います。 A onda de motivação pode ser facilmente aplicada ao aprendizado de idiomas, então estou muito animado para compartilhá-la com você. Волну мотивации можно легко применить к изучению языка, поэтому я очень рад поделиться ею с вами.

As always, you can find the full transcript of this conversation, including a bonus vocabulary lesson at betteratenglish.com/transcripts. |||||||||||||||||melhoremingles|| Como sempre, você pode encontrar a transcrição completa desta conversa, incluindo uma lição de vocabulário bônus em betteratenglish.com/transcripts. Как всегда, вы можете найти полную стенограмму этого разговора, включая дополнительный словарный урок, на сайте betteratenglish.com/transcripts.

OK, you're about to hear part one of the conversation. OK, você está prestes a ouvir a primeira parte da conversa. Хорошо, сейчас вы услышите первую часть разговора. I'll pop in again at the end to give you four things you can do to get the most benefit from this episode. |faire un saut||||||||||||||||||||| |volto||||||||||||||||||||| 最後にもう一度立ち寄って、このエピソードから最大の利益を得るためにできる4つのことを紹介します。 Voltarei a falar no final para dar quatro coisas que você pode fazer para obter o máximo benefício deste episódio. В конце я снова выскажусь, чтобы дать вам четыре вещи, которые вы можете сделать, чтобы извлечь максимальную пользу из этого эпизода.

Are you ready? Let's go!

Lori: Can– can people depend on motivation when they're trying to learn things and do things that are difficult? ロリ:人々は、物事を学び、難しいことをしようとしているときに、モチベーションに頼ることができますか? Lori: Pode - as pessoas podem depender da motivação quando estão tentando aprender coisas e fazer coisas que são difíceis? Лори: Могут ли… могут ли люди зависеть от мотивации, когда они пытаются чему-то научиться и делать что-то сложное?

BJ: Well, in order to do anything difficult, you have to have motivation or you won't do them. BJ:ええと、難しいことをするためには、やる気がなければなりません。 BJ: Bem, para fazer algo difícil, você tem que ter motivação ou não vai fazer. So either, if it's…if the behavior or task is difficult, you've got to find some way to summon up some motivation; or if you make the task simpler, you won't need so much motivation. ||||||||||||||||||invoquer|||||||||||||||| ||||||||||||||||||invocar|||||||||||||||| Então, se for ... se o comportamento ou tarefa for difícil, você precisa encontrar uma maneira de reunir alguma motivação; ou se você tornar a tarefa mais simples, não precisará de tanta motivação. Так что либо, если это… если поведение или задача сложны, вы должны найти какой-то способ вызвать какую-то мотивацию; или если вы упростите задачу, вам не понадобится так много мотивации. So you basically have two options: boost your motivation or make the task easier to do. つまり、基本的に2つの選択肢があります。モチベーションを高めるか、タスクを簡単にするかです。 Portanto, você tem basicamente duas opções: aumentar sua motivação ou tornar a tarefa mais fácil de fazer. Yani temelde iki seçeneğiniz var: motivasyonunuzu artırın veya görevi daha kolay hale getirin.

Lori: Okay yeah, that– that makes a lot of sense. Lori: Ok, sim, isso - faz muito sentido. And I— I noticed in your video, you said that…people often, like teachers or people trying to initiate behavior change or help people change their behavior, that, you don't like to hear them talking about, “motivating behavior change,” you prefer the term “facilitating” behavior change. ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||motivierend|||||||facilitieren|| そして私—あなたのビデオで気づいたのですが…教師や行動の変化を起こしたり、行動の変化を助けようとする人々のように、人々はしばしば彼らが「行動の変化を動機付ける」と話しているのを聞きたくないのです。 」あなたは、行動の変化を「促進する」という用語を好みます。 E eu ... notei em seu vídeo que você disse que ... muitas vezes as pessoas, como professores ou pessoas tentando iniciar uma mudança de comportamento ou ajudar outras pessoas a mudar seu comportamento, que você não gosta de ouvi-los falando sobre "motivar a mudança de comportamento, ”Você prefere o termo“ facilitação ”da mudança de comportamento. И я— я заметил в вашем видео, вы сказали, что… люди часто, такие как учителя или люди, пытающиеся инициировать изменение поведения или помочь людям изменить свое поведение, что вам не нравится слышать, как они говорят о «мотивации изменения поведения, Вы предпочитаете термин «содействие» изменению поведения. I wonder if you could talk a little bit about that. |me pergunto||||||||| Gostaria de saber se você poderia falar um pouco sobre isso. Не могли бы вы немного рассказать об этом.

BJ: Yeah. In English, there's a common phrase that people use when they talk about behavior change, “We need to motivate behavior change.” And yes, you could motivate behavior change but there's other ways to get behavior to happen. 英語では、人々が行動の変化について話すときによく使われるフレーズがあります。「私たちは行動の変化を動機付ける必要があります。」はい、行動の変化を動機付けることはできますが、行動を起こさせる方法は他にもあります。 Em inglês, existe uma frase comum que as pessoas usam quando falam sobre mudança de comportamento: “Precisamos motivar a mudança de comportamento”. E sim, você poderia motivar a mudança de comportamento, mas existem outras maneiras de fazer o comportamento acontecer. В английском языке есть распространенная фраза, которую люди используют, когда говорят об изменении поведения: «Нам нужно мотивировать изменение поведения». И да, вы можете мотивировать изменение поведения, но есть и другие способы заставить поведение произойти. And if you're looking at long-term behaviors or getting people to create habits, focusing on motivation is the wrong focus. Und wenn Sie sich mit langfristigen Verhaltensweisen befassen oder Menschen dazu bringen, Gewohnheiten zu entwickeln, ist es falsch, sich auf Motivation zu konzentrieren. E se você está procurando comportamentos de longo prazo ou induzindo as pessoas a criar hábitos, focar na motivação é o foco errado. И если вы смотрите на долгосрочное поведение или заставляете людей создавать привычки, фокус на мотивации — неправильный фокус. You really need to look at, how do we make the behavior easy to do? あなたは本当に見る必要があります、どうすれば行動を簡単にすることができますか? Você realmente precisa observar como tornamos o comportamento mais fácil de ser adotado? And also, it's related to the habits — how do we make the behavior rewarding or emotionally satisfying? |||||||||||||gratifiant|||satisfaisant |||||||||||||belohnend||| |||||||||||||gratificante||| また、それは習慣にも関係しています—行動をやりがいのあるものにしたり、感情的に満足させたりするにはどうすればよいでしょうか。 E também está relacionado aos hábitos - como tornamos o comportamento gratificante ou emocionalmente satisfatório? А также это связано с привычками — как сделать поведение полезным или эмоционально удовлетворяющим? And so, the thing that I'm worried about is by using that phrase, “motivate behavior change,” people are really limiting themselves in how they think about the different ways to design for behavior change. E assim, o que me preocupa é, ao usar essa frase, “motivar a mudança de comportamento”, as pessoas estão realmente se limitando em como pensam sobre as diferentes maneiras de planejar a mudança de comportamento. Итак, что меня беспокоит, так это то, что, используя эту фразу «мотивировать изменение поведения», люди действительно ограничивают себя в том, как они думают о различных способах проектирования для изменения поведения.

Lori: It's interesting to me, coming from, you know, having a background as a teacher. Lori: É interessante para mim, vindo de, você sabe, ter experiência como professora. I can remember from my initial teacher training, we were often…it was either implied or— or sometimes even overtly stated that the idea was, “You have to motivate your students. ||||||||||||||sous-entendu|||||||||||||||| ||||||||||||||impliziert|||||offen||||||||||| |||||||||||||||||||abertamente||||||||||| 私の最初の教師のトレーニングから、私たちはしばしば…それが暗示されているか、あるいはその考えが「生徒をやる気にさせる必要がある」とあからさまに述べていることさえありました。 Lembro-me de minha formação inicial de professores, muitas vezes ... estava implícito ou - ou às vezes até mesmo declarado abertamente que a ideia era: “Você tem que motivar seus alunos. You have to do things to keep their motivation up.” And— and of course, you know, [as a teacher] you want to be motivating and inspiring to people. Você tem que fazer coisas para manter a motivação deles. ” E - e é claro, você sabe, [como professor] você quer motivar e inspirar as pessoas. But when I saw your video, your presentation about the motivation wave, it's kind of like, a little bell went off that– you know, that it makes so much sense. |||||||||||Welle|||||||||||||||||| ||||||||||||||||||sino||||||||||| しかし、私があなたのビデオ、モチベーションの波についてのあなたのプレゼンテーションを見たとき、それは一種のようなもので、小さなベルが鳴りました–ご存知のように、それは非常に理にかなっています。 Mas quando eu vi seu vídeo, sua apresentação sobre a onda de motivação, foi tipo, um pequeno sino tocou - você sabe, que faz muito sentido. Но когда я увидел ваше видео, вашу презентацию о волне мотивации, у меня как бы прозвенел звоночек — знаете, в этом так много смысла. 但是当我看到你的视频,你关于动机波的演示时,有点像,一个小铃声响起——你知道,它非常有意义。 Could you just explain just the basic, basic idea about the motivation wave — talking about the peaks and valleys, and difficult and hard? ||||||||||||||||pics||vallées|||| ||||||||||||||||||vales|||| モチベーションウェーブについての基本的で基本的な考え方、つまり山と谷、そして困難で難しいことについて説明していただけますか? Você poderia explicar apenas a ideia básica sobre a onda de motivação - falando sobre os picos e vales, e difícil e difícil?

BJ: Everyone, I think, has experienced this phenomenon in their life where they get excited about doing some behavior or some set of behaviors like, getting healthier or reducing stress. BJ: Todos, eu acho, já experimentaram esse fenômeno em suas vidas onde eles ficam animados em fazer algum comportamento ou algum conjunto de comportamentos como ficar mais saudável ou reduzir o estresse. БД: Каждый, я думаю, сталкивался с этим явлением в своей жизни, когда они были взволнованы выполнением определенного поведения или определенного набора действий, таких как оздоровление или снижение стресса. Now that excitement, as it goes up, I decided to call that, a “motivation wave” because it will go up but it will also come back down. その興奮が上がるにつれて、私はそれを「モチベーションウェーブ」と呼ぶことにしました。それは上がるが、また下がるからです。 Agora que a empolgação aumenta, decidi chamar isso de “onda de motivação” porque ela vai subir, mas também vai descer. Теперь это волнение, когда оно растет, я решил назвать «мотивационной волной», потому что оно будет расти, но также и падать. So, it's not a constant thing. Então, não é uma coisa constante. And what the motivation wave allows you to do, when the motivation wave is high — you can do hard things, you can spend lots of time, you can put in a lot of effort, you can persist through hardship if your motivation is high. ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||difficultés||||| ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||persistir||dificuldades||||| そして、モチベーションウェーブがあなたにできることは、モチベーションウェーブが高いときです。あなたは難しいことをすることができ、多くの時間を費やすことができ、多くの努力をすることができます。 E o que a onda de motivação permite que você faça, quando a onda de motivação é alta - você pode fazer coisas difíceis, pode gastar muito tempo, pode colocar muito esforço, pode persistir nas dificuldades se sua motivação for alta. И что волна мотивации позволяет вам делать, когда волна мотивации высока — вы можете делать сложные вещи, вы можете тратить много времени, вы можете прикладывать много усилий, вы можете преодолевать трудности, если ваша мотивация высока. And as your motivation comes down, you can't do the hard things anymore, you only can do simple things. E conforme sua motivação diminui, você não pode mais fazer as coisas difíceis, você só pode fazer coisas simples. And so the key to understand…there's a few keys: Number one, that motivation won't always be high. したがって、理解するための鍵…いくつかの鍵があります。第1に、そのモチベーションは常に高いとは限りません。 E então a chave para entender ... há algumas chaves: Número um, essa motivação nem sempre será alta. That goes up and down. Isso sobe e desce. And then two, when motivation is high, that's the right time to get yourself or other people to do hard things. そして2つ目は、モチベーションが高いとき、それは自分自身や他の人に難しいことをさせる適切な時期です。 E dois, quando a motivação é alta, esse é o momento certo para você ou outras pessoas fazerem coisas difíceis. And when motivation is low, you can't do hard things; what you can do are simple things. E quando a motivação é baixa, você não pode fazer coisas difíceis; o que você pode fazer são coisas simples. And so designing — if you're trying to get yourself to study more or exercise more or what have you and your motivation's really low, then you should take, let's say, the study task, and break it down to just three minutes and say, “Okay, I'm only going to study for three minutes. ||conception||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| ||designen||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| ||planejando||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| E então projetar - se você está tentando estudar mais ou se exercitar mais ou o que você tem e sua motivação está realmente baixa, então você deve pegar, digamos, a tarefa de estudo e dividi-la em apenas três minutos e dizer , “Ok, só vou estudar por três minutos. Итак, проектирование — если вы пытаетесь заставить себя больше учиться или больше тренироваться или что у вас есть, а ваша мотивация очень низкая, тогда вам следует взять, скажем, учебную задачу, разбить ее на три минуты и сказать: , «Хорошо, я буду заниматься только три минуты. 所以设计——如果你想让自己学习更多或锻炼更多,或者你有什么,而你的动力真的很低,那么你应该把学习任务分解成三分钟,然后说, “好吧,我只学习三分钟。 And within three minutes, I'm done.” Instead of forcing yourself or saying, “Oh, I have to study for an hour,” and then your brain finds excuses not to do it at all. E em três minutos, estou feito. ” Em vez de se forçar ou dizer: “Oh, eu tenho que estudar por uma hora”, e então seu cérebro encontra desculpas para não fazer nada. Like, zero. wie|null Lori: Oh yeah.

BJ: And so what happens in a lot of people that say “Great! BJ:それで、「素晴らしい! BJ: E então o que acontece com muitas pessoas que dizem “Ótimo! BJ:所以很多人说“太好了! I'm just going to do three minutes,” once they get started, they're like, “Oh! Vou fazer apenas três minutos ”, uma vez que eles começam, eles ficam tipo,“ Oh! I'll do another three minutes…oh! Vou esperar mais três minutos ... oh! I'll do another three minutes.” So there's a momentum they build up by doing the small steps. Vou esperar mais três minutos. ” Portanto, há um impulso que eles desenvolvem ao fazer pequenos passos. And the motivation actually goes up and they may end up studying an entire hour or longer because that's how their motivation and their interests changed as they were doing it. そして、やる気が実際に上がり、1時間以上勉強してしまうかもしれません。そうすることで、やる気と興味が変わったからです。 E a motivação realmente aumenta e eles podem acabar estudando uma hora inteira ou mais porque foi assim que sua motivação e seus interesses mudaram enquanto eles estavam fazendo isso.

Lori: Yeah, I know. I have noticed that myself, many, many times when I have some kind of task that I'm putting off because it seems like it's too difficult or I'm just not motivated. Eu mesma percebi isso, muitas e muitas vezes, quando tenho algum tipo de tarefa que estou adiando porque parece muito difícil ou simplesmente não estou motivada. But if you can just force yourself to, to sit down and say, “Okay, I'm just going to at least get started; do one tiny little thing,” it's so true, that often does happen, that once you get going, you sort of build a momentum and you end up doing a lot more than you planned in the beginning. ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||Momentum|||||||||||||| ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||ímpeto|||||||||||||| Mas se você puder simplesmente se forçar a sentar e dizer: “Tudo bem, pelo menos vou começar; faça uma coisinha ”, é tão verdade, que muitas vezes acontece, que uma vez que você começa, você meio que cria um impulso e acaba fazendo muito mais do que planejou no início. Но если вы можете просто заставить себя сесть и сказать: «Хорошо, я просто собираюсь хотя бы начать; сделать одну маленькую вещь», это настолько верно, что это часто случается, что как только вы начнете, вы как бы создадите импульс и в конечном итоге сделаете намного больше, чем планировали в начале.

BJ: Yeah, so that's what you do when motivation's low. BJ: Sim, então é isso que você faz quando a motivação está baixa. When motivation's high, when you're in high motivation, that's the time to change your environment, get the materials you need, get the…let me give you an example. ||||||||||||||Umgebung||||||||||||| Quando a motivação está alta, quando você está muito motivado, é hora de mudar seu ambiente, obter os materiais de que precisa, obter o ... deixe-me dar um exemplo. Когда мотивация высока, когда у вас высокая мотивация, самое время изменить свое окружение, получить необходимые материалы, получить… позвольте мне привести вам пример.

Lori: Sure.

BJ: One of the habits I'm doing right now is, I'm practicing whiteboarding. ||||||||||||tableau blanc ||||||||||||brainstorming BJ:私が今している習慣の1つは、ホワイトボードを練習していることです。 BJ: Um dos hábitos que estou adotando agora é praticar o quadro branco. BJ:我现在正在做的一个习惯是,我正在练习白板。 I'm practicing with markers writing on a whiteboard. Estou praticando com marcadores escrevendo em um quadro branco. 我正在练习用记号笔在白板上书写。 You know, like teachers do. Lori: Right.

BJ: And I want my handwriting to get much, much better and so, I'm practicing every day. |||||caligrafia||||||||||| BJ: E eu quero que minha caligrafia fique muito, muito melhor e então, estou praticando todos os dias. And in fact, I'm doing it right now. E, na verdade, estou fazendo isso agora.

Lori: Yeah?

BJ: Just— yeah, because this is how I practice. БД: Просто… да, потому что я так тренируюсь. But anyway, what I did was… Но в любом случае, то, что я сделал, было…

That's the end of part one of this conversation with Dr. BJ Fogg. Did you notice how nervous I sounded? ||||||soei Você notou como eu parecia nervoso? That's because BJ is one of my heroes, and I kind of felt like a little fangirl talking to one of my favorite rockstars. ||||||||||||||||fan enthousiaste||||||| ||||||||||||||||fã||||||| Isso porque BJ é um dos meus heróis, e eu meio que me sinto como uma pequena fangirl conversando com uma das minhas estrelas do rock favoritas.

Until next time, here are four ideas for things you can do to get the most benefit from this conversation. Até a próxima vez, aqui estão quatro idéias de coisas que você pode fazer para obter o máximo proveito desta conversa.

1. If listening to this episode was challenging for you, you can prepare for part two by studying the transcript and listening repeatedly to the conversation. |||||||||||||||||||||plusieurs fois||| Se ouvir este episódio foi um desafio para você, pode se preparar para a parte dois estudando a transcrição e ouvindo repetidamente a conversa. If any words are really causing trouble for your understanding, make sure to look them up. |||||||||||||ver|| Se alguma palavra estiver realmente causando problemas para sua compreensão, certifique-se de procurá-la. If you do this over the next few days, the second part of the conversation should be easier because more of the language will be familiar.

2. Make a prediction! ||Vorhersage Fazer uma previsão! Based on what you heard in this conversation so far, what do you think BJ did to make it easier to practice his whiteboarding every day? |||||||||||||||||||||||exercice de tableau blanc|| |||||||||||||||||||||||brainstorming|| Com base no que você ouviu nesta conversa até agora, o que você acha que BJ fez para tornar mais fácil praticar seu quadro branco todos os dias? There is a big clue toward the end of the conversation. ||||indice|||||| Há uma grande pista no final da conversa. Then next week, listen to see if you were right.

3. If you need to talk about charts and graphs to pass an exam, here's a great chance to practice. ||||||graphes|||||||||||| ||||||Diagramme||Grafiken|||||||||| Se você precisa falar sobre tabelas e gráficos para passar em um exame, aqui está uma grande chance de praticar. 如果您需要谈论图表来通过考试,这里是一个很好的练习机会。 Think about your own motivation to learn English, and how it changes over time. 英語を学ぶあなた自身の動機と、それが時間とともにどのように変化するかを考えてください。 Pense em sua própria motivação para aprender inglês e como isso muda com o tempo. Is it steady, or does it fluctuate? ||||||fluctuer 安定していますか、それとも変動しますか? É estável ou flutua? If it fluctuates, how dramatic are the changes? それが変動する場合、その変化はどのくらい劇的ですか? Se flutuar, quão dramáticas são as mudanças? How often? Draw a simple graph of your English learning motivation and practice explaining it to a friend. Desenhe um gráfico simples de sua motivação para aprender inglês e pratique explicando-o a um amigo. Or post it on my Facebook page and explain it there! Ou poste na minha página do Facebook e explique lá!

4. In the transcript and on the website I've put a link to a Youtube video where BJ explains the motivation wave in detail. BJ is a great speaker, and if your listening is intermediate or above, I encourage you to watch the video so you can learn more about how to make the most of your motivation. ||||||||||mittelmäßig||oder besser||ermutige||||||||||||||||||| BJ é um grande orador, e se sua audição for intermediária ou superior, encorajo você a assistir ao vídeo para que possa aprender mais sobre como aproveitar ao máximo sua motivação. Watching the video will also help you prepare for part two of our conversation. That brings us to the end of this episode of Real English Conversations. Make sure to download the transcript for this episode so you can read along to check your understanding. Certifique-se de baixar a transcrição deste episódio para que você possa ler e verificar seu entendimento. The transcript also has notes about the language we use in the conversation, and explains a lot of the vocabulary.

You can find the transcript at betteratenglish.com/transcripts. Você pode encontrar a transcrição em betteratenglish.com/transcripts.

Until next time, have fun practicing your English! Até a próxima vez, divirta-se praticando seu inglês! If you have questions or suggestions about what you would like to hear in these podcasts, I'd love to hear them. You can find all the ways to get in touch with me Betteratenglish.com/contact. Você pode encontrar todas as maneiras de entrar em contato comigo Betteratenglish.com/contact. Bye for now!