Episode 27: Polyglot Steve Kaufmann on his latest language learning challenge (2)
Now it used to be the other way around and that's because, uh, Farsi is just so much easier. Elle: Okay.
Steve: So much easier. Yeah. And it doesn't have this complication of different forms of... I mean, there may be different forms of Farsi, but basically there's two forms of Farsi. There's a more formal form, which is, which has sort of the written form. And then the form that people use to speak, not very different, essentially the same words, some different endings, some slightly different vowels is not a big deal. So, whereas with, with Arabic, you know, Egypt, uh, Gulf Arabic, uh, Lebanese, Arabic, Moroccan, Arabic, they're all there. Elle: What do you, what... so you mentioned that you were out today and you spoke to three people in Farsi. How, how are you received when you start chatting to them?
Steve: Uh, you know, the, the different sort of national groups react differently. Like if you were to generalize, the Farsi speakers are so pleased when they hear you speak Farsi and they're so encouraging and accommodating. And it's funny, I was out swimming in the ocean the other night, and there was a couple swimming and they started had some kind of, I don't know, small boat or inflatable boat, and they were both in the water and splashing around. And there were a couple in their fifties or early sixties. And, uh, I heard them speaking Farsi.
So I spoke to them in Farsi. Now you can imagine their surprise, they're swimming here in West Van and all of a sudden, some guy, some old geezer speaks to them and, uh, and, uh, so they reply. You're speaking. Are you, are you speaking Farsi? Yeah, guess what, I'm speaking Farsi. So we had a bit of a chat, uh, but generally, I mean the, the one, the one lady at the supermarket I've spoken to her before. She's always very nice. She speaks to me in Farsi. Sometimes the inclination is for them to come back in uh, you know, to prove like, well, you know, I've been in Canada for 10 years, so I speak English very well, you know, so they need to demonstrate that, you know, but this lady at the supermarket, she's always very nice. Oh, I haven't seen you in awhile. How are you? And we went back and forth in Farsi. Yeah. Be careful because there's a lineup at the checkout, you know, I can't just sit, stand there and talk to her while people are waiting to pay for their groceries. But, um, yeah if I see someone see their name hear in their accent, I know you're not supposed to do this, but if I figured that they're Farsi speakers, I say, do you speak Farsi? And then normally react very well.
Elle: I don't know that you're not supposed to do that. I don't think that's... Steve: Well there's this whole idea, like, especially like, so the, the people who seem to be the most sensitive sometimes are people who are Asian. So if a person looks Asian, In fact, you can't assume that they speak an Asian language. Elle: Right. I see.
Steve: In other words, if you have someone who has a Polish name like in Canada, now we have people from all over, right? So you can find Italian names, Polish names, German names, Dutch names, whatever. You can assume that they speak that language. Like my name is Kaufmann. People come up "Ah Steve Kaufman ya...". That's not on. So, and the Asians are particularly, or some of them are a little sensitive, but you know, like I'm Canadian, you know, just because I look Asian, you kind of assume that I can speak English. Right. So you have to be very careful. So you got to pick, you know, you got to sense if this person, you know, you can't sort of imply that they can't speak English. So I, I normally will say, uh, You know, you're not even like according to the real die-hards, you're not even supposed to have any curiosity about where this person is originally from. Even though they look non-Caucasian like that's a no, no. Okay.
Uh, people have no difficulty asking me if I'm German, just by looking at my name and it doesn't bother me in the slightest. I'm not German, but they can ask me because they're curious. Oh, you got... It's like, so, so I just have to be a little bit aware of that. So I typically say, do you speak an Asian language? It's still a little bit dicey because just because of location, why should I have to speak an Asian language? And I agree with that.
I agree with that.
Like a person has been here for three, four generations, no more likely to speak an Asian language than somebody who has someone who has, um, you know, Polish name is expected to speak Polish or who has a Dutch name is expected to speak Dutch. So I agree with them, but I nevertheless enjoy speaking these languages.
And most of them react quite pleasantly. I haven't had any negative interactions, but it sometimes becomes an issue. You know, the sort of politically correct people say you shouldn't. So yeah.
Elle: So, uh, setting out 30 days ago on these challenges, 90-Day Challenge in Arabic and in Persian, did you have any goals, anything you would you wanted to have achieved by the end, in terms of not necessarily, you know, known words or hours of listening, but, uh, content that you would then be able to approach maybe movies or something?
Steve: Well, yeah, I find that my goals have changed. When I started out, I said, I want to be able to understand like a large part of my diet content has been these political partners, which typically I, uh, you know, I extract the MP3 file, convert that to text on an automatic transcription website, bring it into link, uh, and, uh, study it.
So I said, I want to get to where I can really understand these podcasts. But I found that my motivation to do that has declined because they're kind of boring after a while. It's always the same, the different groups and Yemen fighting each other there and Libya or whatever. I just get tired of it all.
So, uh, with Arabic, I've decided no, I'd rather get to where I can understand Egyptian movies. So then I said, well, then I better learn more Egyptian Arabic because I don't understand them very well. And there are Egyptian movies and series on Netflix. So I decided with Arabic, I want to start moving more into the spoken Arabic. Uh, with the, um, with the Farsi...
um, I had been basically following the diet that Sahra fed me. So it was the history of Iran. It was food of Iran. It was minority peoples in Iran, all this stuff, which I found very interesting. So that was great. And all of a sudden she sends me these descriptions of famous Iranian, um, film directors, uh, more than a few of them have won international acclaim even in the last 10 years or so.
Uh, Oscar's uh, awards at the Cannes uh, film festival, Berlin film festival and so forth. So she sends these through and the way she does, she talks about a certain film director, and then she has these circling questions about that same film director. And then she sends me a link to that movie or a movie by that director, uh, on YouTube.
Uh, so I'm able to watch it. So all of that, it has been very interesting. I tried to extract the MP3 file and transcribe it, but, you know, uh, audio from, um, from a movie is a bit disappointing as language learning content, because there's so many, you know, your car noise, the doors slamming, birds chirping. It's not dense language. So I don't do that. I just, whatever she sends me, I read it and I try to learn it, learn about the movie, the film, a director, and then I watch the movie a while and I've enjoyed that. So in a way, I've moved more in the direction of enjoying movies, uh, in both, uh, Arabic heavy to Egyptian, Arabic, and, uh, in Farsi. And trying to talk to three times a week with both Mohammed and, uh, Sahra.
Elle: Excellent. And you watched a movie, is it Asmaa? You recently mentioned n one of yourivideos.
Steve: Asmaa, that was the Egyptian movie. It was very interesting movie, actually, Egyptian movie. Uh, it it's, it's sort of a, it's about the stigma of AIDS in Egypt, uh, about, uh, uh, and I would say even the Iranian movies, this whole honor that the men seem to feel, uh, you know, basically, and, and an important component of their honor is being able to tell women what to do. So these are themes that come up in those movies.
Elle: Okay.
I'll have to, I'm always looking for movie recommendations. So if you say that's good I'll check that out. Steve: Uh, yeah, it's, I'm trying to hear the Arabic. I mean, it is to get a bit of a, of a, of an insight into, uh, Egyptian society. I, I recommend it. Yeah, Asmaa, definitely.
Elle: Okay.
Steve: And, uh, the same with Iranian movies, um, The Separation, it was quite an interesting, quite an interesting movie. Very interesting. And it won some awards, it's an Iranian movie. Elle: Is that, I think I've seen that one. Is it about the mother who. She had children, they don't know who she is. She's... she was... Steve: No
Elle: Okay, I'm thinking of something else. Steve: It's about, um, a couple in Iran and they have a daughter and, uh, they were preparing to leave Iran, to immigrate. And the wife was very keen on doing that, but then the husband decided he wouldn't go because his father now has Alzheimer's and can't look after himself. And so then she wants to divorce and then it gets very complicated. So I can't, I won't get into the whole plot, but it's quite good. And it's apparently quite a psychological study on, um, Iranians. And the one thing that comes through when you watch Iranian movies, and there's another one called Ellie as well, is that while there's this sub-sense of the sort of, um, you know, male, call it male dominant, uh, you know, uh, you know, honor. And yet, at least on the surface, the Iranians, they live very much like we do, you know, they're very modern, European, North American. We have this image that they're all wandering around the women shrouded in black and very backward and stuff. And no, it's not. I mean, there's, there's social differences in Iran, uh, like everywhere, but maybe more marked over there. And, uh, but the, there is a middle-class that lives, you know, like Europeans. So, and that comes through in these movies.
Elle: The Separation. Okay.
I'll check that out too. I was thinking of a completely different movie. Okay.
Um, so Steve, you have, you have a mere 60 days left in your 90-Day Challenge. I wish you the best of luck and, um, yeah, I think it's, it's amazing to me, you're speaking three times a week. So I'm... so you alternate then I assume you spend one week on Arabic one week on Persian? Steve: One week on each. Yeah. But you have to be flexible. Um, Mohammed told me that and he was gonna be without his internet for a week or so. So then I went two weeks on, on Farsi and now he's back, uh, up and running again. So I was spending more time with him.
