20190813 How To Cook One Perfect Meal
What's the one thing Johnny can do that will blow her mind? The plates that he serves on. They're going to be warm. Nine times out of 10 ex boyfriends trying to impress their girlfriends, make their hot food and then put it on cold plates. It's a little shivery and it's just a bad look. That and napkins. Napkins? Yeah, I mean, I can see in your eyes, Charles. You're making me out is like Alan Alda here like Mr. sensitive. But I'm telling you that a cloth napkin sends a message that you're not a bad guy. Welcome to How to. I'm Charles Duhigg. Each week, we talk to listeners who are trying to figure out how to solve one of life's big problems, like how to withstand pain, or how to fire a bad employee. Then we do some research and we track down an expert, and we learn how to solve the problem. This week, we're headed to Brooklyn in the apartment of Johnny Levin. Here's the doorbell. Hey, Hey, how you doing? Welcome to my home. Hey, I'm Charles. Johnny. Nice to meet you. This is it. This is great. Johnny is originally from Chicago. But he came to New York eight years ago to study film and television at NYU. And and how old are you? I'm 26. Okay, if I was talking to your roommates and asking them to describe you, what would they say? Um messy, especially when it comes to cooking, just like it's kind of like a nuclear explosion. Like everything goes everywhere. The thing is, Johnny's got a lot of great qualities. But he says there's one area where he could really use some work, yes, needs to up his game in the kitchen. Just to become a better cook. There is a catalyzing moment for me, which was I was sitting on my couch in my living room with my ex girlfriend and my roommate had his friend Brian over who's visiting from out of town. And Brian was cooking breakfast. And he was dazzling. He was doing that thing where he's shaking the pan. And it's also like above the fire like professional and tossing it up and down. And my girlfriend was just staring at him. Like, mouth open, just amazed. And I think especially in contrast to to my difficulties, and I was just like, I want to be like Brian, he just has so much control. He has confidence in himself. My ex girlfriend, she could cut vegetables like bam, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam. And she didn't she didn't leave you for Brian. She didn't leave me for Brian. Luckily, Brian lives across the country. But a week later, she's like I talked about Brian in therapy. And I was like, Oh my god, that must have been like vcv me that like, I think he was so poised and in control. He was smooth. And I am not like that. And it's not just that Johnny isn't smooth. One time. For instance, I woke up early. I went to the gym and then I bought one of those ah... Asahi. Okay, Asahi packets and a bunch of fruit, hemp seeds and I put in the blender and cut it up all nice. And then she ate it. And it made her violently ill. And she was throwing up on the sidewalk and we were taking the ferry to an event at Roosevelt Island, and she was nauseous and then like the ferry's about to dock and she jumps off early. Does like throw up more on the dock. Meanwhile, they're shaming her on the public address system like you Mrs. you cannot get off the ferry early. Oh, no. She's throwing up. It was horribly embarrassing. And my fault. What did you how did you screw up? I don't know. I don't know. Maybe it was the hemp seeds. How long ago did you guys break up? Like a few months ago. Okay. Yeah, there's some kind of like raw. Yeah, I'll give Johnny this. Whatever skills he's lacking. He is at least really enthusiastic. And it is possible that learning how to cook the right meal, it might make the difference in his love life. I texted my ex girlfriend for what my difficulties in the kitchen were what can I improve? She said chopping onions with skin still on? eyeballing measurements, general messiness, knife skills, lots of spilling. They said that falls under general messiness. And she said issues with heat like what medium heat or simmer means on the stove. And I do agree that's what stressed me out again talking about precision. It's like turn the thing to medium heat. Like why don't they just say seven or whatever or or low? Why are we talking in code here? And Michelle said struggles with kitchen slang. Like what a clove of garlic means. So what so what you texted your girlfriend recently to ask about? Yeah, in preparation. Okay, so you guys are still on touch. Yeah, yeah. So we're still... on touch. And are you like hoping that like if you are better in the kitchen, you're going to like rekindle the flame or... Who knows? Maybe this is my fatal flaw. So once it's corrected, I don't know. You're you're on fire. Yeah, no, she won't be able to turn you down. Exactly. So, we decided to help Johnny get better in the kitchen by talking to this guy. I'm Sam Sifton. I'm the food editor of the New York Times and the founding editor of NYT cooking. When we come back, we'll see if Sam can help Johnny win back his girlfriend, or at least cook a chicken all the way through. He's just got to be confident about that. And he's not looking to make some really over the top impressive meal. Just gonna make a really good meal and feel good about it, and deliver it to someone who cares about and everything's gonna be okay. Hey, how to listeners, I want to recommend a show that I think you'll like from my friend Jay Shetty, called On Purpose, check out this trailer and subscribe to the show wherever you're listening now. Hey, everyone, it's Jay Shetty. And I'm so excited to share with you my Podcast show, On Purpose. This podcast is dedicated to helping you find your passion, live your purpose and reach your potential. I've been fortunate enough to dive in to the stories of finding purpose of some of the most incredible people in the world including Kobe Bryant, Alicia Keys, Chloe Kardashian, Ray Dalio and Yuval Noah Harare, we discuss topics ranging from lifelong relationships, managing your mental health, and understanding how your mind and brain work. We have new episodes every Monday and Friday. You can subscribe anywhere you get your podcast, and please rate and review the podcast if you enjoy it. Live life today on purpose. I can't wait for you to be a part of the community. If you're enjoying how to you should check out Wondery's podcast, American Scandal, which brings to life some of the biggest controversies in US history, presidential lies, corporate fraud, corruption, and sports and so much more. In their new series, they look at the US federal agencies that tried to stop the civil rights movement. Federal officials went after everyone from Billie Holiday to Martin Luther King Jr. and Fred Hampton, who had led the Illinois chapter of the Black Panther Party. It was a fight that would span decades and eventually face a moment of truth. Subscribe to American Scandal on Apple podcast Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts and join Wondery Plus to listen ad free in the Wondery app. So you are a man who knows food. I know a couple things here or there. Sam Sifton is the food editor of the New York Times and he's the papers from a restaurant critic. That's a tough job to complain about. He's the author of a number of amazing cookbooks, my wife actually loves them. In other words, Sam's a guy who knows his way around the kitchen. But what's amazing about his writing and his recipes is you never feel like he's a snob. I'm not a chef. I'm just a regular Joe. I'm a reporter who happens to cover this stuff. And I'm a critic who happens to think about it a lot. But I'm not dissimilar from most people who cook. And that's actually why we wanted to talk to you is because this young guy reached out to us and he... um has a lady friend that he was hoping to impress. And this guy is a terrible cook. Like he, he like does not know what he's doing the kitchen, which is not that totally dissimilar from me, I must say. It's true for a lot of people yeah, it's also not true for most of them. They think they're terrible cooks, but there's something they know how to do. And if they can access the confidence that they have when they're making popcorn, or mixing up that weird cereal and yogurt concoction, or whatever it is, access that confidence, and you're going to be able to cook that closer meal you're looking for with your special friend. I asked him who I should mention is happily married now and has kids. But I asked him when he was young, like how did he try and impress other people in the kitchen? I never had a sort of go-to like, you know, I make them the piccata. And it's game over. I wish that were the case but it but it's not. I was as I'm arguing others should seeking self confidence in the kitchen so that I could serve a delicious meal that would bring happiness to someone else. So my game was what is the what's the sort of simplest impressive thing that I can pull off? So this actually brings up the first question, which is, when is the right time to try and make a meal for someone? Um, I'm not generally in the business. I'm often in the business that's throwing down, you know. So I'm just gonna say third date. That's the time? Third date, minimum. Okay, I'm thinking that's the safest. There you have it. Sam's first rule is don't even attempt to cook a meal until your third date. Johnny is nervous about this. So we're gonna keep this as simple as possible. So we're going to make skin on bone in chicken thighs. So chicken thighs, we're gonna go, that's our protein. We're not going to do like an order, no appetizer. No, no, you might have a bowl and nuts. Okay. But what Johnny needs is confidence. He got in touch with you, because he's a lousy cook or thinks he's a lousy cook, right? It's true. So maybe what he heard was I'd like a really complicated meal. I'd like there to be all this stuff and there's gonna be champagne and there's gonna be orders. What's Johnny going to do, a tasting menu now? This is the next rule. If you want to cook at least one meal really well. You need to know some basics about food, right? But more than anything else, you need confidence. And the best way to do that is to be a master of his surroundings, not okay, not to have too much going on. But to know the points he's going to hit. And he can hit this main course of the chicken starch and vegetable, serve this amazing melty cheese because 90% of people eat their cheese cold from the fridge, but here we're going to have it room temperature and oozing and melting and very sensual. And that's pretty good luck. Yeah. And then a playful touch at the end with a dessert which I'll give you the spark. So it works every time. Okay, so going back to Johnny. I'm gonna give him the Sam Sifton self improvement, confidence building prep speech. And then he has to actually make a meal. Yeah, so Okay, so he's got chicken. He's bought some chicken breasts. No, no, see already, you're screwing Johnny. So the problem with the breasts, is it's really easy to overcook a chicken breast. Any of that dry soda steam, white meat scenario, that's just not a recipe for a win. Okay. We're going chicken thighs, which are fattier, more forgiving, more flavor, cheaper, not for nothing. And, and, and to my mind, infinitely more delicious. Okay. Okay? So he's got chicken thighs. So we have the chicken thighs. Now for the starch, we're going to go with rice. That's it. That's it? That's it, it's going to be perfect rice. And I know he's nervous about that. But he's going to go to Delancey Street and buy a rice cooker. And that's going to stand them in good stead for the rest of his life whatever happens on this date. A rice cooker is a relatively inexpensive piece of technology that has one job to make perfect rice. It does it every single time. So Johnny didn't actually have a rice cooker. So I went out, and I bought one for him, and then I came back. And then he headed into his kitchen and got started. Right? Are we supposed to wash the rice before we cook the rice? Um, I think I kind of remember that. Johnny's kitchen is pretty small, and it's very, very bare. It's about what you would expect from like a 26 year old guy who lives in a shared apartment. There's a there's a bottle of gin in the freezer, and it's next to this chili that Johnny's mom sent them in 2017. But the kitchen does have a microwave. Okay, my microwave is busted. And it's busted because I used to use it as a timer. But I didn't use the timer function, I would still have it operate. So just turned with nothing in it and it kind of went kerplunk and it's a beautiful big microwave. So you fried your own microwave by using it as a timer. Yep. When you would actually run the microwave empty in order to use the timer function? Correct. Have you told your landlord yet that you fried there, I'm trying to make it seem like it's their fault. This is another rule. Don't run an empty microwave because you're too lazy to get a real timer. Also, don't let your landlord listen to this podcast. So we started with the first step of the recipe Sam gave me. Bring some water to the boil as they say in the cookbook trade heavily salted water and I'd get my green beans into that water for like three minutes max and then get them into the sink under a lot of cold cold cold water to arrest the cooking process. Okay, there'll be bright green as a result of this. Nice. Nice, right? Yeah. If you have a colander, and Johnny I hope you have a colander. You can you can run it through the colander and that'll get that hot water out of there faster and you can ice it and get it quick but if you don't, you'll figure it out. Just get those things cold as quickly as possible. And then you can put them aside. I think you've already... Oh, I think more water you want a lot more a lot more cold water. I think so we've got the rice cooking in the rice cooker. We've got water boiling, so we can throw in some green beans for three minutes. It turns out that Johnny does in fact own a colander which is great. And that means it is time to start in on the chicken. The first thing you do is season the chicken, which you want to do like really aggressively. Okay. Okay? Meaning meaning like more than it feels like I should be. Yeah, you should be like, Wow, that's a lot. We're gonna do like a kind of a, like a like a fake "confit", which is which is a French process of cooking in its own fat. Okay, we're not cooking in chicken fat we'll be cooking in olive oil and not a ton but a lot. So what you want to do is get some salt and pepper on there. Quite a lot of salt. Quite a lot of pepper. Really massage it in there. And then I think, hey, it's Johnny's party, but I'm offering the instruction. Yeah, so we're gonna go with some rosemary as well. Crazy. Right? Super fragrant, piney, funky, really nice. You're gonna let him off the hook, my friend. This is gonna be good. We're getting crazy. And maybe some red pepper flakes. If you have some leftover from the pizzeria when you bought those slices... Right. After the last... We want a little spicy too. Okay, so take yourself, take your pepper. And like you just want to go to town. Like Like, just as it... Yes, you're doing great. That's exactly... Man, you're killing it. Keep on going. Now, we're gonna get a big high sided pan. Okay. I don't know how many pans Johnny has. I'm gonna guess three. How many pans do you have? I have 123. So what's the biggest pan that you own? This guy. That That's the biggest pan? You're gonna take the biggest one. And we're going to put a lot of olive oil on there. Okay. Like, like when you say a lot. How much do you mean? Like glug glug, glug, glug, glug, glug, glug, glug, glug, glug. I think I was like 14 glugs. There is a lot of glugs. Oh, is it... when I put the chicken in, is it going to be submerged? No, it's not. But we're also not skimming the pan with just a little oil. You just roll with it. glug, glug, glug, glug, glug. So we have a lot of olive oil in there. If you have a bayleaf that would be cool to go in that olive oil. But I'm guessing Johnny doesn't have a bayleaf. That's okay. That's okay. Medium heat. Medium heat meaning in the oven. So on the stovetop, Charles, okay, there's a dial under each one of the burners. And usually they're labeled low, medium, and high. We want to go in the middle. And this is a moment for reflection. Watching that oil, what do you reflect about? Well, I'm actually just spacing out and watching the oil because it changes a little bit, it begins to move a little bit. And eventually it's going to take on this thing that it's like a mirage, a little bit of a shimmer. And then we know it's pretty hot. And it's kind of an opportunity to contemplate our lives and to change is inevitable. Is this the right girl to be making this chicken for? Eventually, when it's time to stop contemplating life's most important questions, the oil will be relatively hot. And that's when we put in our chicken. Exactly. Go for it looking good. You want it bubbling, bubbling. But you don't want it out of control. And you can move pretty slowly. Okay, this is a very forgiving process for Johnny who's nervous and doesn't know what he's doing. Oh, sorry. Sorry. That's a lot of oil. Okay, but nobody's hurt. Yeah. And after about 15 or 20 minutes, turn the pieces over. I would start skin down. Skin... It's meaning meaning meaning breasts, like the top of the chicken down. Yeah, the so their thighs, once again, your breast obsession is laudable but misplaced. Their thighs and they have a side that is mostly skin and a side that is mostly not skin right. So I would put the skin side down so that it has more of a chance of crisping. Okay, I think let's let's let's move on. That's it. I think it's time to flip. Nice. Well done. Oil is acting up a little bit but... So that's going and in fact, if you feel that the chicken is done, you can take it out and just like kind of let it hang out on a on a platter. On a plate? Notice... notice that I used the word platter and you use the word plate. I feel like this is where the pro tip starts. Yeah, man. Get the platter. Get the platter. Okay, make it warm. Um, okay, so your chicken is or is going to be done. We're confident about it's gonna be beautiful. It's going to look like a beautiful piece of furniture, this mahogany color. It's going to be just fantastic. I'm feeling very confident right now. Is it done? I'm a little nervous about that. We cooked six of these things. One of them is sacrificial. Okay. So when he thinks it's done, you can take it out. Put it on a cutting board and use a small knife to cut along one of the bones in the thigh and take a peek at the interior meat to see like what's going on in there. Right. Is it red? You want it to be done running the juices running clear and not bloody okay right and and and then done all the way down to the bottom. That seems like a clutch move to not introduce blood into... like... Salmonella is is a buzzkill for a day. And and while you're doing I'm gonna check on our rice. Rice looks good. The rice is all done. Yes. Fantastic. That's huge. That's, that's that's a game changer, right? So we've dealt with the chicken, how about that starch, oh, it's done baby, boom, boom, all it needs is fluffing and put it on the table. So we're two out of three. And we've already cooked those, those green beans. So one thing we could do is just toss them in butter, okay, with maybe with some slivered almonds that you got from a nut aisle at the whole foods... That works. Little salt, squeeze some lemon juice on there at the end, you know, we're serving. So now we're done, we're done. We're done. I mean, one of the things that I really like about this combination that we've we've put together is that you have a kind of crisp, crunchy, salty, almost spicy, or hints of spiciness in the chicken. Yeah. And it's quite juicy. And then you have the the kind of crispness of those green beans, right, they have a little bit of a snap to them. And then a textural element from both the salt that you've put on there at the end. And from the nuts. And that that sweetness vectors with the sweetness of the chicken, the saltiness kind of talks to each other. And the and the rice acts as this kind of nutty tasting pure bridge between the two. Maybe I should get better China, because I have these generic white boring, and then we're done. And so we put it on the plate. Well, we want to be careful about just put it on the plate. This is not a soup kitchen, you're not like in the army, like you don't have to make it looked like an architect was involved. But let's keep the border the border and the food within it. Okay, and maybe you've got the chicken thigh or two chicken thighs, a little drift of the rice, and then a stack of the green beans in which you have Johnny please tried to make them all go in the same direction so that they're parallel. So our final rule, presentation matters. Clean up the plate. Make all the beans point in the same direction. You know, classy right? Sam also says you know, light a few candles. Grab a bottle of red wine. And you don't even have to overthink it. Just Just go to the wine store. Ask the guy what you should serve. And then take his advice. Show me your napkins. What kind of napkins you got. The kind of napkins we have are paper towels, not classy, but I can improvise and use a dish towel as a napkin. Yeah, I'm not I'm not feeling... If it's... that's better. I would say I would say before day, maybe we go buy two nice plates, dinner plates. And maybe we buy two napkins. Yeah. So dessert anything else we need before the doorbell rings? No, no, we still haven't talked about dessert. dessert. dessert is going to be a win. Okay, you're going to take the plates when it's all done. Take them into the kitchen. don't deal with them. Now. Come back with the cheese and two little plates. The bread is right there. Oh man. The cheese is looking great. It is oozing. is like it is super oozing. Get through all of that. Oh my gosh, that was so good. It was so great. Everybody's super Irish. She's stoked. He's stoked. I was right to be confident. Everything is great. What possibly could come next. And now's when you go to the hoop with store bought all the way says the semi confident people will have some ice cream. Yeah, not us man. malamar a glass, a tiny glass like just a couple of ounces of cold organic milk and a malamar Wow. That's how you close did we just blow her mind? That's how you close Johnny malamar organic milk, you know malamar? Yeah, chocolate covered marshmallow with a little amazed ram on the bottom. There's this thing that happens. I found that you have not had milk and perhaps neither has she or he in many, many years. Now you're coming back and it's like a matter line. This taste because organic milk now grass fed organic milk is so delicious. It is amazing and that pure kind of barnyard awesomeness with that one single chocolate cookie. The cheese. So you started out really basic, just like mom would make. And then you got a little more sophisticated with the cheese. And then you're like a little kid again. And I know you want to go listen to records. Who knows what's gonna happen next? Yeah. But you're also good guy, right? a creepy guy would not serve a malamar in organic milk. Right? Right. A creepy guy might like tie up a trout with chives. And you know, like, that's putting a roofie in your drink. Yeah, watch it. Watch it. No, seriously, it's a third day with some dude. And he's like, I mean, he's not a professional chef. But he did this crazy bondage thing with a trout, then there's all kinds of different butters. And like, he told you too much about the wine. And don't be a jerk, man. I love I love this, I would eat this meal, just try to bring pleasure to the other person. That's it. Oh, I like that. It's not about you. It's about serving someone. Like, it's to deliver on joy to other people. So we started by talking about confidence, because I think confidence allows you to do a lot of this stuff. But there's a there's a related word that also applies and that's competence. And I think that probably there is very little that is more attractive than competence. The ability to do something in the service of others is kind of cool. And, and brings confidence to the person who can do it and delivers kind of relief to the person who receives it. I can make this dinner for you and you will find it delicious. I can also change the wheel in your car and fix that leaky toilet. And I'm pretty good at making a living. Am I fine here? Have you in the kitchen? I'm going to take care of you emotionally. It's okay. So we talked about what Johnny should do. What's the one thing Gianni should not do? Well, it's don't apologize. Interesting. Do not apologize. You will be so sorely tempted to do so. But don't apologize because it looks like you're kind of begging for a compliment, which is just an awkward weird, it's a bad luck. By the same token. Don't try and explain how much you know about like you listen to a podcast at slate. You're not like a CIA trained chef. You just barely got that check. On the table there's still a price tag on the rice cooker just here's a delicious thing to eat and I hope you really enjoy it be true designs own Yeah. And then she'll say this bit it's actually pretty dry and if it is, you got to be like Yep, I did that on purpose would you like them Alomar? So me and Johnny went through all of Sam's Rules land and for two hours we cook and then he sat down to eat the meal. Chicken is really good. It's really Really good. And I'll be totally honest with you. The meal was amazing. It was it was perfect. I'm not saying that just That's the name of this episode. It was it was like tasted kind of gourmet but also simple. We really we impressed ourselves. And then after the main course we ate some of the runny cheese with a baguette. And then it was time for dessert and I had a actually gone to the grocery store to find the mallomars but I couldn't find them and so we finished with them. What I had managed to find which was chocolate covered Nutter butter. Which artist Not as close As a malamar but still actually pretty good Okay, so it's We did the meal. Yeah, we The chalk covering About her what's Tell me your reaction. It was delicious. Do you Like, you'll be more confident In the kitchen now I think so having this experience under my belt. I think it can be repeated. So do you think you're gonna invite your ex girlfriend over and make her dinner? Absolutely. Yeah, I mean, this is this is this is definitely a game changer. I think it's one of those things that like she talked to her. And she's like, he made the most amazing meal. And he and it's that thing where they're like, and he can cook. Like, like, I think that if that's the last line in my obituary, I'd be pretty satisfied with that. But maybe on my next day, you'll come over as well. A little the training, we'll still need to be on for a little bit. I'll stand on the window. Yes, exactly. Just give me a thumbs up. If you want to see the recipe for Sam Sifton, one perfect meal, we've actually posted it online, along with photos of Johnny and these beautiful chicken thighs that we made together. They're at sleep calm slash how to. Thanks so much to Johnny Levin for letting us into his kitchen and the SAM Sifton at the New York Times. Sam has a ton of great cookbooks he's written including Thanksgiving, how to cook it well. And a new one coming out in a few months called See you on Sunday, a cookbook for family and friends. We're gonna stay in touch with Johnny and his romantic life improves because of his cooking. We will definitely keep you posted. If you have something we can help you with. We want to hear from you. Send us a note about your problem and how to it's like calm, and we'll take on your case and see if we can't make the problem go away. Also, if you like what you heard today, please give us a rating and a review in Apple podcasts. It helps people find the show. It helps us know that someone's listening. Also my wife might think I'm more cool. how tos executive producer is Derrick john Merrick Jacob is our engineer. Our theme music is by Hannah's Brown. June Thomas is the senior managing producer of slate podcasts. And Gabriel Roth is slate editorial director for audio. Special thanks to Michael Conrado and Asha Cindy Jeff. I'm Charles duhigg. Thanks for listening. If you don't already know tune in is an all in one audio app where you can listen to LiFE sports, music, news and your favorite podcasts. Go to tune in.com to download the app or listen to how to with me Charles duhigg on tune in.
