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Steve's Cafe, Critical Thinking and Dialoguing

Critical Thinking and Dialoguing

Hi there, Steve Kaufmann here at Steve's Café.

Remember, if you don't like me talking about things political and want me to talk about language learning, go to my Lingo Steve channel. Otherwise, this is where I rant on whatever catches my fancy. Today, I'm going to talk about critical thinking and dialoguing, the reason? I saw a tweet. I follow different people on my Twitter account. I follow educators and they were taking about the importance of teaching critical thinking and there's another concept that I came across here in Vancouver called ‘dialoguing'. Simon Fraser University has a Center for Dialoguing where they teach people how to dialogue, how to communicate with respect, respecting diversity and all of these things. There's something within me that objects to both these terms.

I object to the idea that teachers are going to tell people how to think and how to communicate. My experience with critical thinking was while I was on a list serve, which is like a forum of English teachers. When they talked about critical thinking, it was mostly about how they could get their ESL students (English language students) from Honduras, Nicaragua or Afghanistan to challenge the system more. In other words, to recognize that there were powered relationships and they were being abused in some way or whatever. One guy even insisted that all of his students basically lobby the state government -- this was in the States in his case – for more funding for English language instruction for immigrants. Again, it's this idea of teachers directing the minds of students rather than just teaching them English. It wasn't obvious to me that say an immigrant from Honduras who undoubtedly has had to deal with a lot of situations in her/his country would benefit by being taught how to think by some English teacher.

Also, there is often this contrast between sort of Western thought, which is supposed to be more based on challenging things and being call it more logical, whereas the Asians – Chinese, Japanese, Koreans – are meant to be more group-oriented, more go with the flow, don't challenge things logically. I don't believe that really. I think people tend to think and what they think and how they think is a function, to some extent, of what they know and also of their identity, what's important to them. If people were really so rational in Western countries, for example in the United States, we wouldn't have such a large amount of support for Donald Trump.

Obviously, a certain group of people, regardless of how stupid or however many ignorant, impolite, impetuous and ridiculous things he says, they continue to support him. It's not critical thinking that's at play here, it's their identity. It's a bit like in Russia, where the government basically is running their economy into the ground engaged in very expensive call them geopolitical adventures and spending a fortune on propaganda when they have a declining quality of health care, schooling, you name it, yet at a level in their identity they identity with this.

So while they understand that a small number of people are making out like bandits while there is a lack of money for government pensions, hospitals and so forth it doesn't matter. Critical thinking is not what matters the most. In that sense, to imply that somehow an English teacher has a unique ability to teach critical thinking to a student of English I don't buy.

In fact, critical thinking means you must have the same attitude, this sort of critical attitude towards problems as I have. If the student has a different attitude probably the critical thinking teacher will say no, that's not right. You're not thinking critically because you don't agree with me. Similarly with dialoguing, I went to their website Simon Fraser University Center for Dialoguing and there's this thing about finding consensus, being respectful and harmony in all of our communications.

Which sounds like a good idea, but again I don't like that. If I don't agree with you, I'm going to tell you and people can disagree with me. Although, some people's comments here are usually along the lines of you stupid, old, white, conservative idiot, whatever. I get some of those. I wouldn't say usually, but you get some of those. If I criticize Justin Trudeau someone will say, oh, you must hate him. I don't hate him, I just don't happen to like his policies. I'm not carried away by Justin Trudeau, but I don't hate him personally. I'd probably like him. If he came to dinner we'd have a great time, probably. Anyway, dialoguing, the idea is that we're going to find this common ground.

For whatever reason, a friend of mine and I were going to this function organized by Simon Fraser University where we're going to dialogue about stuff. So they organized us around tables and then this student of this Center for Dialoguing explained to us ordinary citizens that now we must learn to dialogue. It's this new, better, more productive way of communicating, respect, harmony and all the rest of it. So we sat around a table and were engaged in this exercise of writing down random thoughts in response to questions and stuff like that and then the student who was sort of chairing our little table would summarize. We were talking about multiculturalism and just about everybody at our table, most of whom were immigrants, said they really want for themselves and their children to assimilate into the Canadian mainstream.

That's what they all said. But the student there, she wrote down we all think it's really valuable that in Canada we have multiculturalism which respects diversity and all this stuff. Which is fine to have as an opinion, but that was not the summary of the views at our table. Subsequently, at lunch I sat down with a student who had harangued us on the importance of harmony, respectful communication and dialoguing and so we were talking about multiculturalism.

Now, I have the view that whatever people do privately, whatever religion they profess privately, whatever languages they're interested in privately, whether it be the language or culture of their heritage call it or whether it be some other culture or language that's entirely up to them, but in a country like Canada with so many immigrants we shouldn't be encouraging people to be different. We're not going to force them to assimilate, but the things we have in common -- that includes a lot of things that were there before the immigrants arrived, the way we communicate, our languages, our sports, different customs -- we should make as attractive as possible so that immigrants actually want to assimilate.

Not force them to assimilate, but assimilate. As has been the case with my family and with many of the people I know, they're just happy to be Canadian. So I more or less explained this to him and this guy when he heard that sort of attacks me.

You bigot! How can you say that, blah, blah, blah? Here's a guy who probably speaks one language, has a very limited knowledge of the world and of history, but he's been given this very small amount of ideology about diversity and multiculturalism, which is fine. He can have his point of view, but having lectured us on dialoguing to then jump at me with accusations of being a bigot to me again demonstrates that dialoguing, in effect, is a code word for saying we must all agree with the established politically-correct position. In fact, there was a student at that Center for Dialoguing who also didn't like the sort of group think, forced think, politically- correct atmosphere and so I said I'll come up and give a talk.

When I was up there talking to the students it was obvious that the majority of the students, I would say 60% of the student, even more so the professor, were not about respect for other people's points of view, but imposing the correct point of view. So when I hear the words critical thinking and dialoguing I tend to be a little skeptical. Thank you for listening, bye for now.

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Critical Thinking and Dialoguing |||dialoguing |||Dialog führen eleştirel||| |||対話 Crítica||| Kritisches Denken und Dialogführung Pensamiento crítico y diálogo Pensée critique et dialogue Pensiero critico e dialogo クリティカルシンキングとダイアローグ 비판적 사고와 대화 Kritinis mąstymas ir dialogas Krytyczne myślenie i dialog Pensamento crítico e diálogo Критическое мышление и диалог Eleştirel Düşünme ve Diyalog Kurma Критичне мислення та діалог 批判性思维和对话 批判性思考和對話

Hi there, Steve Kaufmann here at Steve’s Café.

Remember, if you don’t like me talking about things political and want me to talk about language learning, go to my Lingo Steve channel. 제가 정치적인 이야기를 하는 것이 싫고 언어 학습에 대해 이야기하고 싶다면 제 Lingo Steve 채널을 방문하세요. Otherwise, this is where I rant on whatever catches my fancy. caso|||||desabafo||o que quer que||| |||||schimpfe||||| ||||||||잡다||마음에 드는 ||||||||吸引|我|兴趣 |||||愚痴||||| |||||hablo descontroladamente||||| Por lo demás, aquí despotrico de lo que me apetece. Sinon, c'est ici que je m'exprime sur tout ce qui me passe par la tête. 그렇지 않으면 이곳에서 제 마음에 드는 것은 무엇이든 떠들어댑니다. Caso contrário, é aqui que eu comento o que me apetece. Today, I’m going to talk about critical thinking and dialoguing, the reason? 今天||||||||||| ||||||crítico|pensamento||||razão 오늘은 비판적 사고와 대화에 대해 이야기해 보려고 하는데, 그 이유는 무엇일까요? I saw a tweet. |||tweet |||ツイートを見た J'ai vu un tweet. I follow different people on my Twitter account. ||||||트위터| 저는 트위터 계정에서 여러 사람을 팔로우합니다. I follow educators and they were taking about the importance of teaching critical thinking and there’s another concept that I came across here in Vancouver called ‘dialoguing'. ||교육자들|||||||||||||||||||||||| Je suis des éducateurs et ils parlent de l'importance d'enseigner la pensée critique et il y a un autre concept que j'ai découvert ici à Vancouver et qui s'appelle le "dialogue". 저는 교육자들을 팔로우하는데, 그들은 비판적 사고를 가르치는 것의 중요성에 대해 이야기하고 있었고, 이곳 밴쿠버에서 '대화'라는 또 다른 개념을 접하게 되었습니다. Simon Fraser University has a Center for Dialoguing where they teach people how to dialogue, how to communicate with respect, respecting diversity and all of these things. ||||||||||||the manner in which||conversation skills|||||||||||| |||||||||||||||||||||多様性||||| 사이몬 프레이저 대학교에는 대화 센터가 있어 사람들이 대화하는 방법, 존중하는 의사소통 방법, 다양성을 존중하는 방법 등을 배웁니다. There’s something within me that objects to both these terms. |||||反对|||| |||||反対するもの|||| ||dentro||||||| Il y a quelque chose en moi qui s'oppose à ces deux termes. 내 안에는 이 두 용어에 반대하는 감정이 있습니다. 我内心深处对这两个术语有些反对。

I object to the idea that teachers are going to tell people how to think and how to communicate. |反対する||||||||||||||||| 나는 교사들이 사람들에게 어떻게 생각하고 의사소통해야 하는지를 가르친다는 생각에 반대합니다. My experience with critical thinking was while I was on a list serve, which is like a forum of English teachers. |||||||||||||||||포럼||| ||||||||||||lista de discussão|||||||| 내가 비판적 사고를 경험했던 것은 영어 교사들의 포럼과 같은 리스트 서브에서였습니다. When they talked about critical thinking, it was mostly about how they could get their ESL students (English language students) from Honduras, Nicaragua or Afghanistan to challenge the system more. |||||||||||||||ESL||||||온두라스|Nicaragua||||||| |||||||||||||||||||||ホンジュラス|||||||| ||||||||principalmente||||||||||||||||||questionar||| Lorsqu'ils parlaient de pensée critique, ils cherchaient surtout à savoir comment amener leurs étudiants ESL (English language students) du Honduras, du Nicaragua ou d'Afghanistan à remettre davantage le système en question. 그들이 비판적 사고에 대해 이야기할 때, 주로 ESL 학생들(영어를 배우는 학생들)인 온두라스, 니카라과 또는 아프가니스탄 출신의 학생들이 시스템에 더 도전하도록 어떻게 할 수 있을까에 관한 것이었습니다. In other words, to recognize that there were powered relationships and they were being abused in some way or whatever. ||||||||권력 있는||||||남용된||||| ||||||||権力のある||||||虐待された||||| ||||reconhecer||||||||||||||| 다시 말해, 권력이 있는 관계들이 존재하며 그것이 어떤 방식으로든 남용되고 있다는 것을 인식하는 것이었습니다. One guy even insisted that all of his students basically lobby the state government -- this was in the States in his case – for more funding for English language instruction for immigrants. ||||||||||游说|||||||||||||||||||| ||||||||||로비하다|||||||||||||||||||| ||||||||||ロビー活動||||||||||||||資金援助|||||| ||até||||||||pressionem||||||||Estados||||||financiamento|||||| L'un d'entre eux a même insisté pour que tous ses étudiants fassent pression sur le gouvernement de l'État - dans son cas, il s'agissait des États-Unis - afin d'obtenir davantage de fonds pour l'enseignement de l'anglais aux immigrés. 심지어 한 학생은 이민자를 위한 영어 교육에 더 많은 예산을 지원하기 위해 모든 학생들이 주 정부(그의 경우는 미국)에 로비를 해야 한다고 주장하기도 했습니다. Again, it’s this idea of teachers directing the minds of students rather than just teaching them English. ||||||guiding|||||||||| |||||||||||mais||||| Encore une fois, il s'agit de l'idée que les enseignants dirigent l'esprit des élèves plutôt que de leur enseigner simplement l'anglais. 다시 말해, 이것은 학생들의 생각을 가르치는 것이 아니라, 교사들이 학생들의 마음을 이끄는 아이디어입니다. It wasn’t obvious to me that say an immigrant from Honduras who undoubtedly has had to deal with a lot of situations in her/his country would benefit by being taught how to think by some English teacher. ||||||||이민자||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| Il n'était pas évident pour moi qu'un immigrant du Honduras, par exemple, qui a sans aucun doute dû faire face à de nombreuses situations dans son pays, aurait intérêt à ce qu'un professeur d'anglais lui apprenne à penser. 온두라스에서 이민 온 사람은 자신의 나라에서 많은 상황을 처리했을 것이 분명하지만, 어떤 영어 교사에게 사고하는 방법을 배움으로써 혜택을 받을 것이라는 것은 저에게 분명하지 않았습니다.

Also, there is often this contrast between sort of Western thought, which is supposed to be more based on challenging things and being call it more logical, whereas the Asians – Chinese, Japanese, Koreans – are meant to be more group-oriented, more go with the flow, don’t challenge things logically. |||||||||||||||||||도전적인||||||||||아시아인들|||한국인들|||||||||가다|||흐름에 따르다||||논리적으로 ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||論理的に ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||desafio|| Par ailleurs, il existe souvent un contraste entre la pensée occidentale, qui est censée être davantage axée sur la remise en question et la logique, et la pensée asiatique (chinoise, japonaise, coréenne), qui est davantage axée sur le groupe, qui suit le courant et ne remet pas les choses en question de manière logique. 또한, '서양 사고'와 '동양 사고' 사이에는 종종 대조가 있습니다. 서양 사고는 문제에 도전하고 논리적이라고 할 수 있는 반면, 아시아 사람들 – 중국인, 일본인, 한국인 –은 더 집단 지향적이며, 흐름을 따르며 합리적으로 문제를 도전하지 않는 것으로 여겨집니다. I don’t believe that really. Je ne le crois pas vraiment. 나는 정말 그렇게 믿지 않는다. I think people tend to think and what they think and how they think is a function, to some extent, of what they know and also of their identity, what’s important to them. |||||||||||||||||||extensão||||||||||||| Je pense que les gens ont tendance à penser et que ce qu'ils pensent et comment ils pensent est fonction, dans une certaine mesure, de ce qu'ils savent et aussi de leur identité, de ce qui est important pour eux. 나는 사람들이 생각하는 경향이 있고, 그들이 생각하는 것과 생각하는 방식이 어느 정도 그들이 알고 있는 것과 그들의 정체성, 그들에게 중요한 것의 함수라고 생각한다. If people were really so rational in Western countries, for example in the United States, we wouldn’t have such a large amount of support for Donald Trump. |||||합리적인||||||||||||||||||||| |||||合理的||||||||||||||||||||| ||||||||||||||||não||tanta|||quantidade||||| Si les gens étaient vraiment aussi rationnels dans les pays occidentaux, par exemple aux États-Unis, nous n'aurions pas un soutien aussi important pour Donald Trump. 예를 들어 미국과 같은 서방 국가에서 사람들이 정말로 그렇게 합리적이라면, 우리는 도널드 트럼프에 대한 그렇게 많은 지지를 받지 않을 것이다.

Obviously, a certain group of people, regardless of how stupid or however many ignorant, impolite, impetuous and ridiculous things he says, they continue to support him. |||||||||||||uninformed||rash||absurd|||||||| ||||||independentemente|||||||||||||||||||ele |||||||||||||||unüberlegte|||||||||| ||||||||||||||무례한|성급한|||||||||| ||||||bez ohľadu na|||||||||unáhlený|||||||||| |||||||||||||||冲动|||||||||| |||||||||||||無知||衝動的な|||||||||| 분명히 특정 그룹의 사람들은 그가 아무리 어리석거나 무식하고 무례하고 성급하고 우스꽝스러운 말을 많이 해도 그를 계속 지지합니다. It’s not critical thinking that’s at play here, it’s their identity. Ce n'est pas la pensée critique qui est en jeu ici, c'est leur identité. 여기서 중요한 것은 비판적 사고가 아니라 그들의 정체성입니다. It’s a bit like in Russia, where the government basically is running their economy into the ground engaged in very expensive call them geopolitical adventures and spending a fortune on propaganda when they have a declining quality of health care, schooling, you name it, yet at a level in their identity they identity with this. |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||declining||||||||||||||||||| ||||||||||||||||||||||||모험||||재산|||||||declining = declining||||||||||||||||||하는| |||||||||||||||||||||||地政学的|||||||宣伝活動|||||衰退する|||||教育|||||||||||||| |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||cuidado||||||||||||||| C'est un peu comme en Russie, où le gouvernement mène l'économie par le bout du nez, s'engage dans des aventures géopolitiques très coûteuses et dépense une fortune en propagande, alors que la qualité des soins de santé, de l'enseignement, etc. est en baisse, et pourtant, à un certain niveau de leur identité, ils s'identifient à cela. 이는 마치 러시아처럼 정부가 기본적으로 지정학적 모험이라고 부르는 매우 값비싼 사업을 벌이면서 경제를 파탄에 이르게 하고, 의료 서비스, 학교 교육 등의 질이 떨어지고 있는데도 국민들의 정체성 수준에서는 이를 정체성으로 삼고 있는 것과 비슷합니다.

So while they understand that a small number of people are making out like bandits while there is a lack of money for government pensions, hospitals and so forth it doesn’t matter. ||||||||||||||土匪||||||||||||||||| ||||||||||||||||||||||||Renten||||||| |||||||||||profiting, benefiting, exploiting|||||||||||||||||||| ||||||||||||||a small number of people are making out like bandits||||||||||연금|병원|||||| ||||||||||||||強盗||||||||||年金|病院|||||| 따라서 정부 연금, 병원 등에 필요한 자금이 부족한 상황에서 소수의 사람들이 도둑처럼 돈을 버는 것은 이해하지만, 그것은 중요하지 않습니다. Critical thinking is not what matters the most. essential||||||| L'esprit critique n'est pas ce qui compte le plus. 비판적 사고가 가장 중요한 것은 아니다. In that sense, to imply that somehow an English teacher has a unique ability to teach critical thinking to a student of English I don’t buy. ||||implizieren||||||||||||||||||||| ||||||어떻게든|||||||||||||||||||믿지 않는다 ||||暗示する||||||||||||||||||||| En ce sens, je ne crois pas qu'un professeur d'anglais ait la capacité unique d'enseigner la pensée critique à un étudiant en anglais. 그러한 의미에서, 어떤 식으로든 영어 선생님이 영어 학생에게 비판적 사고를 가르치는 독특한 능력을 가지고 있다고 암시하는 것은 나는 동의하지 않는다.

In fact, critical thinking means you must have the same attitude, this sort of critical attitude towards problems as I have. En fait, la pensée critique signifie que vous devez avoir la même attitude, cette sorte d'attitude critique face aux problèmes que j'ai. 사실, 비판적 사고란 내가 가지고 있는 것과 같은 태도, 문제에 대한 이러한 종류의 비판적 태도를 가져야 한다는 것을 의미한다. If the student has a different attitude probably the critical thinking teacher will say no, that’s not right. Si l'élève a une attitude différente, l'enseignant qui fait preuve d'esprit critique lui dira probablement que non, ce n'est pas bien. 학생이 다른 태도를 가지고 있다면 비판적 사고 교사는 아마도 "아니, 그건 옳지 않아."라고 말할 것입니다. You’re not thinking critically because you don’t agree with me. |||비판적으로|||||| Vous n'avez pas l'esprit critique parce que vous n'êtes pas d'accord avec moi. 당신은 나와 동의하지 않기 때문에 비판적으로 생각하지 않고 있습니다. Similarly with dialoguing, I went to their website Simon Fraser University Center for Dialoguing and there’s this thing about finding consensus, being respectful and harmony in all of our communications. ||||||||||||||||||||합의||존중하는||조화|||||소통 대화하는 것과 마찬가지로, 나는 그들의 웹사이트인 사이먼 프레이저 대화 센터를 방문했고, 모든 커뮤니케이션에서 합의를 찾고, 존중하며 조화를 이루는 것에 대한 내용이 있습니다.

Which sounds like a good idea, but again I don’t like that. 좋은 생각처럼 들리지만 다시 한 번 마음에 들지 않습니다. If I don’t agree with you, I’m going to tell you and people can disagree with me. 제가 동의하지 않는다면 여러분께 말씀드리고 사람들은 저와 동의하지 않을 수 있습니다. Although, some people’s comments here are usually along the lines of you stupid, old, white, conservative idiot, whatever. ||||aqui|||||||||||||o que quer que seja Bien que les commentaires de certaines personnes ici soient généralement du type "vous êtes stupide, vieux, blanc, idiot conservateur, etc. 하지만 일부 사람들의 댓글은 대개 멍청하다, 늙었다, 백인이다, 보수적인 바보라는 식의 내용입니다. I get some of those. J'en reçois quelques-uns. 저도 그런 경우가 있습니다. I wouldn’t say usually, but you get some of those. Je ne dirais pas qu'il s'agit d'une habitude, mais il y en a. 보통은 아니라고 말씀드리고 싶지만, 이런 경우도 있습니다. If I criticize Justin Trudeau someone will say, oh, you must hate him. 제가 저스틴 트뤼도를 비판하면 누군가는 저스틴을 싫어하는 게 틀림없다고 말합니다. I don’t hate him, I just don’t happen to like his policies. Je ne le déteste pas, mais il se trouve que je n'aime pas ses politiques. 저는 그를 싫어하는 것이 아니라 그의 정책이 마음에 들지 않을 뿐입니다. I’m not carried away by Justin Trudeau, but I don’t hate him personally. ||carried away|||||||||| Je ne suis pas emballé par Justin Trudeau, mais je ne le déteste pas personnellement. 저는 저스틴 트뤼도에게 매료되지는 않았지만 개인적으로 그를 싫어하지도 않습니다. I’d probably like him. Il me plairait probablement. 아마 좋아할 것 같아요. If he came to dinner we’d have a great time, probably. S'il venait dîner, nous passerions probablement un bon moment. 그가 저녁에 온다면 우리는 아마도 훌륭한 시간을 보낼 것입니다. Anyway, dialoguing, the idea is that we’re going to find this common ground. ||a|||||||||| Quoi qu'il en soit, en dialoguant, l'idée est que nous allons trouver un terrain d'entente. 어쨌든 대화하면서, 우리의 아이디어는 이 공통점을 찾는 것입니다.

For whatever reason, a friend of mine and I were going to this function organized by Simon Fraser University where we’re going to dialogue about stuff. |||||||||||||event||||Simon Fraser University|||||||| |||||||||||||||||||||||||coisas Pour une raison que j'ignore, un ami et moi devions nous rendre à cette manifestation organisée par l'université Simon Fraser, où nous allions discuter de choses et d'autres. 어떤 이유에서인지, 제 친구와 저는 사이먼 프레이저 대학교에서 주최하는 이 행사에 가서 여러 가지에 대해 대화할 예정이었습니다. So they organized us around tables and then this student of this Center for Dialoguing explained to us ordinary citizens that now we must learn to dialogue. ||||||||||||||||||os cidadãos|||||||| Ils nous ont donc organisés autour de tables et cet étudiant du Centre pour le dialogue nous a expliqué, à nous citoyens ordinaires, que nous devions maintenant apprendre à dialoguer. 그래서 그들은 우리를 테이블에 둘러앉히고 대화 센터의 한 학생이 우리 일반 시민들에게 이제 대화를 배워야 한다고 설명했습니다. It’s this new, better, more productive way of communicating, respect, harmony and all the rest of it. 새롭고 더 나은, 더 생산적인 소통, 존중, 화합 등 모든 것을 위한 새로운 방식입니다. So we sat around a table and were engaged in this exercise of writing down random thoughts in response to questions and stuff like that and then the student who was sort of chairing our little table would summarize. |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||leitete||||| |||||||||||activity||||||||||||||||||||||||||| |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||의장을 맡은|||||요약했다 |||||||||||||||aleatórias|pensamentos|||||||||||||||||presidindo|||||resumir Nous nous sommes donc assis autour d'une table et nous nous sommes livrés à cet exercice consistant à écrire des pensées aléatoires en réponse à des questions et à des choses de ce genre, puis l'étudiant qui présidait en quelque sorte notre petite table faisait un résumé. 그래서 우리는 테이블에 둘러앉아 질문 등에 대한 대답으로 아무 생각이나 적는 연습을 했고, 작은 테이블의 의장을 맡고 있던 학생이 요약하는 시간을 가졌습니다. We were talking about multiculturalism and just about everybody at our table, most of whom were immigrants, said they really want for themselves and their children to assimilate into the Canadian mainstream. |||||||||||||||||||||||||||integrieren|||| |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||corrente 우리는 다문화주의에 대해 이야기하고 있었는데, 대부분 이민자인 우리 테이블의 거의 모든 사람들이 자신과 자녀들이 캐나다 주류에 동화되기를 원한다고 말했습니다.

That’s what they all said. 그게 다들 한 말이에요. But the student there, she wrote down we all think it’s really valuable that in Canada we have multiculturalism which respects diversity and all this stuff. ||||||||||||||||||||존중하는||||| |||||||||||||||||||||||||coisa Mais l'étudiante qui était là a écrit que nous pensons tous que le multiculturalisme au Canada, qui respecte la diversité et toutes ces choses, est très important. 하지만 그곳의 학생은 우리가 캐나다에서 다양성을 존중하는 다문화주의가 정말 가치있다고 생각한다고 적었어요. Which is fine to have as an opinion, but that was not the summary of the views at our table. ||boa||||||||||||||||| 그것은 개인적인 의견으로는 괜찮지만, 그것은 우리 테이블에서의 의견 요약이 아니었어요. Subsequently, at lunch I sat down with a student who had harangued us on the importance of harmony, respectful communication and dialoguing and so we were talking about multiculturalism. |||||||||||训斥||||||||||||||||| |||||||||||uns belehrt||||||||||||||||| |||||||||||열변을 토했다||||||||||||||||| |||||||||||説教した||||||||||||||||| ||||||||||| lectured||||||||||||||||| 그 후 점심시간에 저는 화합, 존중하는 소통, 대화의 중요성에 대해 이야기하던 학생과 함께 앉아 다문화에 대해 이야기를 나누었습니다.

Now, I have the view that whatever people do privately, whatever religion they profess privately, whatever languages they’re interested in privately, whether it be the language or culture of their heritage call it or whether it be some other culture or language that’s entirely up to them, but in a country like Canada with so many immigrants we shouldn’t be encouraging people to be different. |||||||||||||declare belief in||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| |||||||||||||신앙을 고백하다|||||||||||||||||유산|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| Je suis d'avis que quoi que les gens fassent en privé, quelle que soit la religion qu'ils professent en privé, quelles que soient les langues qui les intéressent en privé, qu'il s'agisse de la langue ou de la culture de leur héritage ou d'une autre culture ou langue, c'est à eux de décider, mais dans un pays comme le Canada, qui compte tant d'immigrants, nous ne devrions pas encourager les gens à être différents. 저는 사람들이 개인적으로 무엇을 하든, 개인적으로 어떤 종교를 고백하든, 개인적으로 어떤 언어에 관심이 있든, 자신의 유산을 부르는 언어나 문화가 무엇이든, 다른 문화나 언어가 무엇이든 전적으로 그 사람에게 달려 있다고 생각하지만 캐나다처럼 이민자가 많은 나라에서 우리는 사람들에게 다른 것을 장려해서는 안 된다고 생각합니다. We’re not going to force them to assimilate, but the things we have in common -- that includes a lot of things that were there before the immigrants arrived, the way we communicate, our languages, our sports, different customs -- we should make as attractive as possible so that immigrants actually want to assimilate. |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||관습|||||||||||||| Nous n'allons pas les forcer à s'assimiler, mais les choses que nous avons en commun - ce qui inclut beaucoup de choses qui existaient avant l'arrivée des immigrants, la façon dont nous communiquons, nos langues, nos sports, nos différentes coutumes - nous devrions les rendre aussi attrayantes que possible pour que les immigrants veuillent réellement s'assimiler. 동화를 강요하지는 않겠지만, 이민자들이 도착하기 전에 있었던 많은 것들, 즉 우리의 의사소통 방식, 언어, 스포츠, 다른 관습 등 우리가 가진 공통점을 최대한 매력적으로 만들어 이민자들이 실제로 동화되고 싶어하도록 해야 합니다.

Not force them to assimilate, but assimilate. |||||오히려| ||||||assimilarem 동화를 강요하는 것이 아니라 동화하는 것입니다. As has been the case with my family and with many of the people I know, they’re just happy to be Canadian. 제 가족과 제가 아는 많은 사람들이 그랬듯이 캐나다인이라는 사실에 행복해합니다. So I more or less explained this to him and this guy when he heard that sort of attacks me. 그래서 저는 그 남자가 저를 공격하는 말을 들었을 때 이 사실을 어느 정도 설명했습니다.

You bigot! |Bigot |prejudiced person 이 편협한 놈! How can you say that, blah, blah, blah? 어떻게 그런 말을 할 수 있죠, 어쩌고저쩌고? Here’s a guy who probably speaks one language, has a very limited knowledge of the world and of history, but he’s been given this very small amount of ideology about diversity and multiculturalism, which is fine. 여기 한 가지 언어를 구사하고 세계와 역사에 대한 지식이 매우 제한적인 사람이 있는데, 다양성과 다문화주의에 대한 이데올로기는 아주 조금만 배웠으니 괜찮습니다. He can have his point of view, but having lectured us on dialoguing to then jump at me with accusations of being a bigot to me again demonstrates that dialoguing, in effect, is a code word for saying we must all agree with the established politically-correct position. |||||||||||||||||||||||prejudiced person|||||||||||||||||||||||| |||||||||강의한||||||||||비난||||||||보여준다||대화하는||||||||||||||||||입장 |||||||||||||||||||||||preconceituoso|||||||||||||||||||||||| Il peut avoir son point de vue, mais le fait qu'il nous ait fait la leçon sur le dialogue pour ensuite m'accuser d'être bigot démontre une fois de plus que le dialogue est en fait un mot de code pour dire que nous devons tous être d'accord avec la position politiquement correcte établie. 그는 자신의 관점을 가질 수 있지만, 대화에 대해 강의한 후 저를 편협한 사람이라고 비난하는 것은 대화가 사실상 우리 모두가 기존의 정치적으로 올바른 입장에 동의해야 한다는 암호어라는 것을 보여줍니다. In fact, there was a student at that Center for Dialoguing who also didn’t like the sort of group think, forced think, politically- correct atmosphere and so I said I’ll come up and give a talk. 사실 그 대화 센터에 한 학생이 있었는데, 그 학생도 집단 사고, 강요된 사고, 정치적으로 올바른 분위기가 싫어서 제가 와서 강연을 하겠다고 했어요.

When I was up there talking to the students it was obvious that the majority of the students, I would say 60% of the student, even more so the professor, were not about respect for other people’s points of view, but imposing the correct point of view. Lorsque j'ai discuté avec les étudiants, il était évident que la majorité d'entre eux, je dirais même 60 %, et plus encore le professeur, ne cherchaient pas à respecter les points de vue des autres, mais à imposer le bon point de vue. 학생들과 이야기를 나누다 보니 학생의 60%, 심지어 교수의 60%가 다른 사람의 관점을 존중하는 것이 아니라 자신의 관점을 강요하는 것이 분명했습니다. So when I hear the words critical thinking and dialoguing I tend to be a little skeptical. ||||||||||||||||회의적이다 그래서 저는 비판적 사고와 대화라는 단어를 들으면 약간 회의적인 경향이 있습니다. Thank you for listening, bye for now. |||||지금| Merci d'avoir écouté, au revoir pour l'instant.