English LingQ 2.0 Podcast, EnglishLingQ Podcast 2.0 #26: Learn Mandarin Like Mischa Wilmers: Graded Readers, News in Chinese, Novels and LingQ! (1)

EnglishLingQ Podcast 2.0 #26: Learn Mandarin Like Mischa Wilmers: Graded Readers, News in Chinese, Novels and LingQ! (1)

Elle: Hello everyone and welcome to the LingQ podcast with me Elle. Remember all you English learners you can study this podcast episode as a lesson on LingQ. I will always pop the lesson link in the description. Using LingQ you can work through the transcript, translating the words and phrases that you don't know to add to your own personal database. And remember to like share, follow, subscribe, whatever showing love means on the platform that you are listening on.

This week, I am joined by another wonderful guest Misha Wilmers is a language learner, blog and LingQ user. Welcome Mischa, thank you so much for joining us.

Mischa: Thanks very much for having me on.

Elle: And whereabouts are you joining us from on this fine Monday?

Mischa: So I'm in Manchester at the moment, uh, Manchester in the UK. Elle: Excellent. In the kind of north, I guess. Yeah.

Don't, you'd call Manchester north, right? Northern England.

Mischa: Northwest. Yeah.

Northwest.

Elle: Okay.

And how's life in Manchester these days? Mischa: It's good. Um, at the moment I'm on a staycation kind of thing, not going abroad this year. So I never thought I'd say that about going on holiday to Manchester. I actually work in Leeds, which is about an hour away from here, but, um, yeah. Um, generally things are good. The weather is for Manchester standards, um, reasonably good. Okay.

So not too bad.

Elle: Excellent. That's a great word, actually, "staycation." vacationing at home. I think a lot of people around the world will be doing that this summer. So yeah, hopefully, hopefully the weather stays nice for you. Uh, so Misha, as I mentioned, you are a language learner and a blogger. You run a blog called I'm learning mandarin.com. So as we can guess, you're currently studying Mandarin Chinese. So what, uh, first off, what made you decide to land on Mandarin? Why, why Mandarin Chinese?

Mischa: So I guess the initial reason was basically the, I had moved to a new city, so I moved from Manchester where I'm from about five years ago to Leeds. And when I first moved to Leeds, I was looking for things to do. Um, I was looking to meet new people, didn't know anyone in the new city. And so I saw that the university that I was working for, um, they were advertising cheap Mandarin classes at the Confucius Institute that operates on campus. And so I decided to just take advantage of them. I had a basic interest in languages from before, um, because I grew up bilingual, I'm half Spanish. So I grew up bilingual in English and Spanish. And at school I'd also done French, but I always felt like, um, I always really enjoyed doing French, but I felt like, without doing much work I had a kind of natural advantage over other people just from knowing Spanish with the similarities between French and Spanish. So when I was thinking about activities to take up in the new city I'd moved to language learning seemed like an obvious choice given my previous interest. But I wanted to like set a new kind of challenge to see whether I could cope with the language is different as Mandarin rather than something like another romance language, like French or Italian or something like that.

Elle: And how did you find those classes and how many... was it like a course of classes or you just went to the odd one and then we were all on your own studying?

Mischa: So initially, um, it was a course of, a beginner course of eight classes and that kind of got me going, that kind of kept me inspired. Um, I really enjoyed that course, it was a one and a half hour classes in the evenings after work once a week. Um, so really not enough to, to learn very much Chinese at all, but enough to inspire me to want to keep going basically. I then complete, I completed a couple of other courses after that, um, which were similar, but a slightly higher level each one, but, um, all of them quite basic stuff again.

So I completed about three or four courses overall. Um, after that, I've just been mainly self studying, using LingQ, and other tools like that. Yeah.

Elle: Excellent. So yeah, self study. What does that involve for you then? What, uh, what kind of methods? What kind of, I guess let's talk about methods first and then maybe talk about LingQ little bit. Mischa: Yeah. I mean, when it comes to methods like I split my kind of Chinese learning experiences intitwo parts because I've been on it for about four years now. Um, um, the first two years, my methods were basically, I didn't have any methods because I was trying to figure out like, how, how do you learn Chinese? I had absolutely no idea how to learn a language like Chinese, as I say, like completely different challenge to learning something like French when you know Spanish.

Um, so I kind of spent a lot of that two years trying to figure out different, download any apps I could, figure out different ways. Things like Duolingo are like the first obvious things that you come across, they have the best like marketing. Obviously they have the most money to spend. So, um, I came, so, so basically the first two years I had no idea what I was doing.

I would like go to my classes, leave my classes and then try and get some, um, language exchange partners, and there's quite a lot of Chinese people on campus. So there was no shortage of people to speak to. So I'd just leave my class and try and practice with Chinese people. But after two years, I kind of felt like I need to try something different.

This isn't really working. And that's when I came across, um, Steve Kaufmann's YouTube videos, um, and he was talking about, cause he has one on learning Chinese, um, and it, he discussed how, um, the most important things for him were kind of listening and reading. And that was the first time that like I came across what seems like quite an obvious point, but I didn't realize at the time, which was that input is the most important thing when learning language. So all the, all the kind of stuff I've been doing at the beginning stage of like trying to use basic words and phrases I'd learned in class and practiced them over and over again with language exchange partners, but not really having any idea what they were saying back to me. Steve Kaufmann's videos kind of helped me to see that, like there was maybe another approach. And since my previous approach wasn't really working, I felt, um, I thought might as well give this a go. And, um, so from then, um, I used a lot of, uh, graded readers, um, at the beginning because, and I blog about this as well, because particularly in Chinese at the beginning the characters are a huge barrier to being able to read even a very basic level.

So I found something that was really useful that I hadn't quite, I hadn't discovered the mini stories on LingQ, which if I went back now, I might do. But, um, at the beginning stage, before I started using LingQ, my main input was from graded readers. So there's Mandarin companion graded readers I found really useful. Um, um, yeah, so they're basically just short books, short stories. They're not like high literature or anything like that, but they're entertaining enough. Um, they're more entertaining than like your average textbook kind of thing. So I started doing a lot of reading and then listening to the, um, to the CD of the audio, the audio of the books as well.

Elle: Okay.

Mischa: So, so mainly like, um, my methods since then have been embracing this mass immersion approach. Mass input approach, but without, obviously, without being in the country. So, um, so from, from the UK.

Elle: Excellent. Excellent. And so how, so you said the graded readers, you, you, when you first discovered Steve and then LingQ you were into the graded readers. Were?You...

was that tough. I mean, were you studying the characters, I guess, as you read, were you, were you reading the same story multiple times?

Um, and that helped. So I was already able to read a bit like, but I'd just been reading short dialogues in textbooks. So then when I first started reading graded readers that are graded at different levels. So the first level, the beginner level is like, um, set at like maybe 500 words or 500 characters.

So, um, so I started reading them about two years ago. And when I first started they were like really challenging for me. I was reading above my level I think at the beginning. Maybe I was reading, like I start with the 500 characters one, but they're not necessarily the characters that you have that you've committed to memory. So there'll be lots of unknown characters. So it was a bit of a slog, but I just... like, because I'd never read a whole book before, when I finished my first kind of graded read a book, it was just like a sense of achievement. And also you're exposed to all the grammar patterns over and over again. So it was my first sense of like, after kind of reading a few of them, I started to get real sense of like the, the real benefits of mass immersion compared to what I was previously doing.

Elle: Right.

Kind of got the ball rolling. What, uh, what did you move on to after graded readers? What kind of content?

Mischa: So after graded readers, then that's pretty much when I discovered and started using LingQ more. So I mentioned, I discovered Steve Kaufmann's videos, but I didn't immediately make the transition to LingQ. That was a bit later. Um, so after graded readers, I decided I got to a point where a lot of people get to with graded readers where you've read like the highest level of graded readers, which is maybe like set at 1,500 characters or something like that. But that's not quite enough to, um, read newspapers or novels. So there's, uh, there's kind of a, a small gap there, a bit of a gap that you have to bridge somehow. So I wanted to make a concerted effort to start tackling native content. Um, that's where I discovered LingQ. And, um, the rest is history, as they say.

I mean, since then, LingQ has basically been my main tool for learning. I import lots of stuff into it and that kind of thing. Initially, I was working a lot on native dialogues. Um, so there's, um, Wolf and Wawa. I don't know if anyone's heard of that, um, on LingQ, there's a really good podcast, which is two Chinese friends discussing, uh, natural, more or less natural speed. I think they're designing it for learners, but it's, it's, um, they're using like everyday Chinese, um, and. It's kind of, because it's like a transcript of daily conversation, a lot of the words and phrases they're using a very common, um, so that's kind of the first kind of more or less native content that I started tackling. And then from there I started moving on to radio transcripts of SBS, um, SBS, which is, um, the Australia's like Mandarin channel, which has like, uh, short broadcasts on lots of different topics and radio phone ins where Chinese people living in Australia phone in to chat about everything that's going on in terms of politics and other things. So, so yeah, basically from that, um, so that, that's what I was doing at first with LingQ. And then after that I started doing more novels and, um, and things like that, which, um, which I'm still doing now. Elle: Excellent. And to go back to something you said about newspapers there, so you said 1000 to 500 characters isn't enough to read like a regular, um, newspaper article in Mandarin? Mischa: Yeah, I'd say that's right. I mean, the thing is there's, there's different... people put different figures on the number of characters that you need in order to be literate in terms of reading a newspaper and there's no set number. Um, but I think to be comfortable, I would probably put it above 1,500.

I don't know what I put it at specifically, but maybe more like 2000 to 3000. Um, at 3000 probably you start feeling fairly comfortable, but there'd still be characters that come up in the news that you don't know. But, um, but yeah, I'd say I'd put it around more like that, but certainly after the graded readers, um, which was set at something like one between 1000, 1,500, I still found reading the news very, very challenging. Elle: So how many... so many characters, how many characters would you, do you think you have committed to memory at this point four years in, right?

Mischa: So initially I was, um, um, when I first started out, I did spend quite a lot of time writing them out by hand. Eventually I had to make a choice because I have a full-time job. I have other commitments. So it's kind of a, um, a choice about what you're going to commit your time to. And I just didn't have enough time if I wanted to commit all the time that I have to reading and listening, like using LingQ and other tools. Yeah.

Mischa: So, so yeah, I got, um, I got about 500 eventually, but then I decided to just focus purely on listening and reading. And I think at some point in the future, I may go back particularly because I'm told if I want to pass a proficiency test in the future, uh, which is not a priority for me, but it may be something I want to do in the future that the new system they're talking about, which hasn't been confirmed yet, but the new system may involve uh, writing by hand component. Whereas at the moment they allow you to take the proficiency tests by writing Chinese using a computer, but in the future, maybe they may make you write it out by hand. So I, so anyway, I may, I may go back to it in future.

Elle: Okay.

That's interesting that they would as it, add it, sorry, to the test, as opposed to it being there and them taking it away with our modern world, but okay. Mischa: They, um, initially, I mean, there's always been a writing component. Elle: Right.

Mischa: But what they'd done in the past last few years is they'd introduced us some test centers, HSK test centers. They started allowing people to, um, take the test using a computer. And like, as you say, that makes perfect sense because the, I mean, that's how everyone writes nowadays. Uh, if you can communicate using a computer, then there's really no problem in terms of communicating. But I think, um, the new system hasn't been confirmed, but if they do end up bringing back the writing component, I suspect it's because there's, um, a case to be made about preserving the, the art of writing by hand and that kind of thing, and preserving the tradition of that. Elle: That makes sense. That makes sense. I mean, the characters are so beautiful and I know you're not writing them out like a calligrapher would, but it's an art, for sure I can see that. Mischa: Absolutely.

Elle: So what does, and I know days are different, you know, some days you work, weekends maybe you don't, but what does a day of a Mandarin study look like for you? Mischa: Yeah, it's interesting because I don't really see it as study anymore because, because it's kind of transitioned to it phase where, um, a lot of things that I would previously have done in terms of leisure in English now I do in Chinese. So for example, I spend, um, most of the stuff I, if I'm reading for pleasure, like in terms of novels, um, I do that in Chinese now instead. So that's kind of study time. So the typical, if I were to like set out like a day, uh, just for studying Chinese, it would probably involve spending some time reading my novel. And then, um, listening to, uh, for listening, like I'm watching you, there's a lot of like YouTube channels that I follow. Um, like talking about politics.

Um, there's some cartoons that I quite like because they're slightly, so, um, so sorry I say easier, but they're still, I mean, um, yeah, so like there's a cartoon called ... uh and it's, um, about, uh, a girl going about her daily life. It's actually dubbed from Japanese, but that's sort of what I use for like easier stuff is like cartoons like that. And then for harder stuff, like things like sitcoms and political channels where people talk about politics and stuff, a lot of stuff on YouTube basically. So I do that. And then, um, one thing that in the past few months I've started doing a lot more of particularly during the lockdown and then coming out of lockdown was because I couldn't meet up with Chinese friends, doing a lot more Zoom calls and that kind of thing. So I usually most days actually I'll spend some time half an hour or an hour even calling or doing like a, a call with a Chinese friend and doing conversation exchange. Elle: Excellent. I like that. It doesn't feel like study anymore. What, at what point do you remember when it started to feel that way when it was less of, like you said, some things were slog, of course, the beginning period in any language is a slog, do you remember when you went "huh, I'm replacing english or Spanish or whatever, TV time, book, time with Chinese and it's like it's entertainment now? Mischa: Yeah, I think that, I don't know if it was a single moment. I think it happened quite gradually and it was quite, um, a slog to get there. I mean, the, the, um, first lockdown a year ago, um, I basically started like stepping up quite a lot.

So previous to that, because, uh, like, as I say, I was working, I still am working full-time. But with, with when there wasn't locked down, there was less time in the day. So previous to that, I was maybe doing Chinese for like half an hour a day. And then when lockdown happened, I started taking it more seriously.

So then I started like spending several hours a day. Um, and then gradually through doing that, I think I started to get more of a sense of like, that I could, I could do this for enjoyment and purely pleasure at the beginning during that lockdown, like I still felt it was a slog. I was trying to grapple with native materials on LingQ that were above my level, that I still found very challenging, both to read and to listen to, and actually like, um, something I've blogged about as well. But like, because I was spending so much time and because sometimes I was using materials which didn't interest me that much, I did feel sort of after three or four months when the first lockdown ended, I think in like June last year, um, I started feeling a bit burned out and I took it, I took quite a bit of time off Chinese at that point. And I think I actually took like probably three months, the whole summer off Chinese. I just couldn't couldn't face looking at any, um, Chinese at that time. Um, when I got back to it, I think maybe that's kind of a moment worth talking about, because although I'd been away from, from it for three to four months, I think within a week of getting back to it, I felt like I was at my previous level or slightly better than my previous level. So the three months off hadn't done me any harm at all. And I started to feel from then because I had some distance, um, when you're actually like working really hard, I think a lot of the time you can't really see the progress that you're making, because I had that distance of a couple of months coming back to it and I started to feel, this is slightly easier. I'm starting to get more pleasure. I'm starting to like reading like novels and stuff like that. Isn't so much of a slog anymore. Elle: Excellent. So there's hope for anyone listening who is maybe in that situation Mischa mentioned before. You can get to the point where it's, it's more fun and less of a slog for sure. Mischa: Um, absolutely. Yeah.

Elle: Yeah. Such discipline, right? You just have to be so persistent. Yeah, for sure. Has there been anything that's surprised you on your, on your Mandarin learning journey so far? Mischa: Um, I think lots of things have surprised me. I think one, I think they've mostly being positive surprises because I mean the initial surprise of learning Mandarin I would say was slightly negative because I went into it very naively. And so I had no idea what learning Mandarin involved. So the initial surprise was, oh, this is actually like quite hard.

and once I got over that surprise, the surprise, the surprises after that were all positive in the sense that after that initial surprise, you start to wonder, is this possible? Am I ever going to be able to do this? Is learning characters possible? Particularly characters, I would say. Um, and, and the surprises that no, if you, if you stick at it, do it every day, um, spaced repetition, flashcards, they will stick. And particularly because one of my concerns was you hear a lot about some people are visual learners, some people are audio learners or whatever. And, um, in my case I'm definitely not a visual learner, in my opinion. I don't know if there's any, if that's meaningful or not like whether these categories are meaningful or not, but yeah. Um, never considered myself to be a visual learner or to like have a visual memory, anything like that. So I was concerned maybe that that would be an impediment to learning characters and yeah, the surprising thing, the positive surprise was that no, if you stick at it every day, it doesn't matter whether you're a visual learner or not like you will, they will stick, you'll be able to pick up characters. So, so that was positive.

Elle: Excellent. Um, so what does the future hold? As you say, four years, And you have your website I'm learning mandarin.com. Is the next year or two just Mandarin focussed? Do you, are you hoping to move on to another language?

Mischa: So I think for the time being, I'm definitely quite committed to Mandarin because I've reached a level, which for me personally is fairly gratifying. I mean, I'm able to have like long conversations about lots of different topics with my friends and that kind of thing. Um, there are still things that I want to achieve in Mandarin personally, that I haven't yet achieved. And particularly in terms of listening fluency, um, just general fluency as well. Being able to express myself. I don't want to get to an, a native level. I'm not so sure interested in that. Like some people are, but, um, I do want to get to a slightly higher level of fluency than I am at the moment. Um, and just general improvement across, across the board in terms of listening and, and reading as well.

Um, because for example, in reading with characters, Um, I know enough that like reading novels on LingQ is generally very comfortable, but if, if they're on paper, it's a lot more difficult because you need to look up every word in the dictionary. And, um, although I may recognize 95%, that 5% is still very difficult to cope with on papers, not so much on LingQ.

So there are still those areas that I really want to improve. And in terms of, uh, blogging and that kind of thing, definitely want to continue blogging. Um, my insights about my experience and I'm, I'm interested in maybe getting more into YouTube, this kind of stuff, which I've never done before, this is my first time. Maybe start like joining the ranks of the kind of YouTube exhibitionists who like speak different languages, which is another thing, um, I wouldn't mind trying in the future, but so there's a few things I'm interested in, but generally just, um, continuing, improving my Chinese and learning and blogging about the learning. Elle: Excellent. Sounds good. I just wanna apologize if anyone can hear banging my adorable and very lively nephews are right above me. It's kind of stomping. I don't know if that's going to carry through, but maybe. The joys of working from home. Um, excellent. I was going to say to you actually, yeah, you should start a YouTube channel.

Definitely. I mean, that's where everyone's at and you, I think it'd be great. So, and you know, people love, you know, when you're learning a language, you love to see, like you said that it can be done, you know, someone's progress week by week or every other week whenever you post something. Um, yeah.

Mischa: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

I mean, those YouTube channels have really helped me. Um, particularly people like Steve Kaufmann, there's also Luke Truman. Yeah, but people like that, like you watch the videos and you, you can, if you're a beginner, particularly you can see what's possible, um, that they really can speak Chinese fluently that, um, they've done it in adulthood. So why can't you? Um, and often like very insightful. So, so yeah, I'm open to contributing to that kind of thing. Elle: Perfect. Well, best of luck. We'll be following along. I'll pop the link to your website I'm learning mandarin.com. I'll also pop the link to the blog post that you wrote for the LingQ blog about learning Chinese on LingQ which is excellent. And yeah, any other. Uh, content that you mentioned, um, to, for anyone listening, watching, we'll also be in the description. So, uh, Mischa, thank you so much. That was a really great chat and I wish you all the best luck with your blogging and maybe YouTubing in the future.

Mischa: Perfect. Thank you for having me on.

Elle: Cheers. Bye-bye.

Mischa: Thanks, bye.

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Elle: Hello everyone and welcome to the LingQ podcast with me Elle. ||||||the||||| Elle||todos ustedes||bienvenidos|||LingQ|podcast de LingQ||yo|Elle eu|Olá|||bem-vindos||||||| Elle: 大家好，欢迎收听 LingQ 播客，我是 Elle。 Remember all you English learners you can study this podcast episode as a lesson on LingQ. ||||alunos de inglês||||||episódio||||| recuerden|todos||inglés|estudiantes de inglés|||estudiar||||como|||| 请记住，所有英语学习者都可以将本期播客节目作为 LingQ 上的一堂课来学习。 I will always pop the lesson link in the description. ||siempre||||||| ||sempre||||link da lição||| 我总是会在描述中弹出课程链接。 Using LingQ you can work through the transcript, translating the words and phrases that you don't know to add to your own personal database. |||||||transcrição|traduzindo||||||||||adicionar|||||banco de dados And remember to like share, follow, subscribe, whatever showing love means on the platform that you are listening on. |||||seguir|||demonstrando|amor||||||||| ||||compartir|||||||||||||| 记得在您收听的平台上点赞、分享、关注、订阅，不管是什么表达爱的方式。

This week, I am joined by another wonderful guest Misha Wilmers is a language learner, blog and LingQ user. |||||||||Миша Вилмерс||||||||| |||||||||Misha Wilmers||||||||| ||||acompanhado por||||convidado|Misha Wilmers|||||aprendiz de línguas|blogue|||o usuário |||||||||Misha Wilmers|||||||||Nutzer |||||||||میشا ویلمرز||||||||| ||||||||invitado especial|Misha Wilmers||||||||| 本周，我邀请到了另一位出色的嘉宾 Misha Wilmers，她是一位语言学习者、博客和 LingQ 用户。 Welcome Mischa, thank you so much for joining us. |||||||por se juntar| 欢迎米沙，非常感谢你加入我们。

Mischa: Thanks very much for having me on. |gracias|||||| |Obrigado|||||| ミシャ：私を乗せてくれてありがとう。米沙：非常感谢你邀请我上节目。

Elle: And whereabouts are you joining us from on this fine Monday? ||از کجا||||||||| ||nereden||||||||| ||de dónde||||||||hermoso|lunes ||de onde|||||||||segunda-feira Elle: ¿Y de dónde te unes a nosotros en este hermoso lunes? 艾丽尔在这个美好的星期一，你从哪里来到这里？

Mischa: So I'm in Manchester at the moment, uh, Manchester in the UK. ||||منچستر|||||||| ||||Manchester|||||||| ||||Manchester|||||||| ||||Mánchester|||||||| Mischa: Estoy en Manchester en este momento, eh, Manchester en el Reino Unido. 我现在在曼彻斯特，英国的曼彻斯特。 Elle: Excellent. Elle: Excelente. 艾丽尔好极了 In the kind of north, I guess. ||||norte geográfico||acho que En el tipo de norte, supongo. 在那种北方，我猜。 Yeah. sim 是啊

Don't, you'd call Manchester north, right? マンチェスターを北と呼んではいけませんよね？别这样，你会把曼彻斯特叫做北边，对吧？ Northern England. norte de|Inglaterra do Norte 英格兰北部。

Mischa: Northwest. |noroeste 米沙：西北。 Yeah. 是啊

Northwest. 西北。

Elle: Okay. Elle：Okay.

And how's life in Manchester these days? |wie ist||||| |como está|a vida|||| 曼彻斯特最近怎么样？ Mischa: It's good. 很好 Um, at the moment I'm on a staycation kind of thing, not going abroad this year. |||||||домашний отпуск|||||||| |||||||home vacation|||||||| |||||||estadia em casa||||||no exterior|| |||||||Bleiburlaub|||||||| |||||||ev tatili|||||||| |||||||تعطیلات در خانه|||||||| |||||||vacaciones en casa|||||||| Um, en este momento estoy en una especie de estadía, no iré al extranjero este año. De momento, estou numa espécie de "staycation", não vou para o estrangeiro este ano. 嗯，目前我正在度假，今年不会出国。 So I never thought I'd say that about going on holiday to Manchester. ||||||||||vacaciones|| Así que nunca pensé que diría eso sobre ir de vacaciones a Manchester. だから私はマンチェスターに休暇に行くことについてそれを言うとは思っていませんでした。 Por isso, nunca pensei dizer isso sobre ir de férias para Manchester. 所以，我从来没想过要去曼彻斯特度假。 I actually work in Leeds, which is about an hour away from here, but, um, yeah. ||||لیدز||||||||||| ||||Leeds||||||||||| ||||Leeds||||||||||| 其实我在利兹工作，离这里大概一小时车程，不过，嗯，是的。 Um, generally things are good. |geralmente||| 嗯，总的来说还不错。 The weather is for Manchester standards, um, reasonably good. |||||||fairly| |o tempo||||padrões||razoavelmente| 天気はマンチェスターの基準に合っています、ええと、適度に良いです。曼彻斯特的天气还算不错。 Okay. 好的

So not too bad. それほど悪くはありません。所以还不错。

Elle: Excellent. 艾丽尔好极了 That's a great word, actually, "staycation." |||||این واقعاً کلمه‌ی خوبی است، "اقامت در خانه". |||||staycation |||||férias em casa "宅度假 "其实是个不错的词 vacationing at home. staying at home|| passando férias|| 在家度假|| Urlaub zu Hause|| تعطیلات در خانه|| vacacionando en casa|| 家で休暇。 I think a lot of people around the world will be doing that this summer. 我|||||||||||||| ||||||||||||||neste verão 我想今年夏天，全世界很多人都会这么做。 So yeah, hopefully, hopefully the weather stays nice for you. ||esperançosamente||||permanece|agradável|| Uh, so Misha, as I mentioned, you are a language learner and a blogger. |||||||||||||博主 |||||||||||||Bloggerin |||||||||||||blog writer |||||||||||||bloguera |||||||||||||blogueiro You run a blog called I'm learning mandarin.com. ||||||||com Tienes un blog llamado Estoy aprendiendo mandarin.com. So as we can guess, you're currently studying Mandarin Chinese. ||||||derzeit||| ||||||atualmente|estudando|| So what, uh, first off, what made you decide to land on Mandarin? ||||||||||karar kılmak|| ||||||||||escolher|| Então, em primeiro lugar, o que é que o levou a decidir aterrar em Mandarim? Why, why Mandarin Chinese? Neden|Neden||

Mischa: So I guess the initial reason was basically the, I had moved to a new city, so I moved from Manchester where I'm from about five years ago to Leeds. |||||ilk başta|||temelde|||||||||||||||||||||| |||||inicial|||||||mudei-me||||cidade||||||||||||há cinco anos|| ミシャ：最初の理由は基本的には新しい街に引っ越していたので、5年ほど前のマンチェスターからリーズに引っ越したのだと思います。 And when I first moved to Leeds, I was looking for things to do. ||||||Leeds||||||| |||||||||procurando|||| Um, I was looking to meet new people, didn't know anyone in the new city. And so I saw that the university that I was working for, um, they were advertising cheap Mandarin classes at the Confucius Institute that operates on campus. |||||||||||||||||||||Конфуций Институт||||| |||||||||||||||||||||Confucius Institute|||functions|| |||vi|||universidade|||||||||anunciando|baratas||aulas|||Instituto Confúcio|Instituto Confúcio||funciona|| ||||||||||||||||||||||||运营||校园 |||||||||||||||werbte||||||Konfuzius-Institut|Institut||||Campus |||||||||||||||||||||کنفوسیوس|||فعالیت می‌کند|| |||||||||||||||publicitaban||||||Confucio|||opera|| And so I decided to just take advantage of them. |||||||||他们 |||karar verdim||sadece|||| |||decidi|||||| I had a basic interest in languages from before, um, because I grew up bilingual, I'm half Spanish. ||||||||||||||دوزبانه||| |||básico|||||||||cresceu||bilingue|||espanhol So I grew up bilingual in English and Spanish. Así que crecí bilingüe en inglés y español. And at school I'd also done French, but I always felt like, um, I always really enjoyed doing French, but I felt like, without doing much work I had a kind of natural advantage over other people just from knowing Spanish with the similarities between French and Spanish. ||||||||||felt||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| ||||||francês||||sentia||||||gostava de|||||||||||||||||||||||||||semelhanças|entre||| 学校ではフランス語もやりましたが、いつもフランス語をするのはとても楽しかったですが、あまり仕事をしなくても、スペイン語を知っているだけで他の人よりも自然に有利だと感じました。フランス語とスペイン語の類似点。 So when I was thinking about activities to take up in the new city I'd moved to language learning seemed like an obvious choice given my previous interest. ||||||||başlamak|||||||||||gibi göründü|||||||| |||||||||||||||||||parecia||||opção evidente|||interesse anterior| ですから、新しい街での活動を考えていたとき、語学学習に移ったことは、以前の興味を考えると当然の選択のように思えました。因此，当我考虑在新城市开展的活动时，考虑到我以前的兴趣，我转向语言学习似乎是一个显而易见的选择。 But I wanted to like set a new kind of challenge to see whether I could cope with the language is different as Mandarin rather than something like another romance language, like French or Italian or something like that. 但是|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| ||||||||||||||||başa çıkmak|||||||||||||||||||||| ||||||||||||||||hacer frente|||||||||||||||||||||| |||||estabelecer|||||||||||lidar com||||||||em vez de|||||língua românica|||||italiano|||| ||||||||||||||||کنار بیایم|||||||||||||زبان‌های رومی||||||||| Pero quería plantearme un nuevo tipo de reto para ver si era capaz de desenvolverme en un idioma tan diferente como el mandarín en lugar de en otra lengua románica, como el francés o el italiano, o algo parecido. しかし、フランス語やイタリア語などの別のロマンス諸語ではなく、北京語とは異なる言語に対処できるかどうかを確認するために、新しい種類の課題を設定したいと思いました。

Elle: And how did you find those classes and how many... was it like a course of classes or you just went to the odd one and then we were all on your own studying? |||||||||||是|||||||||||||||||我们|||||| ||||||||||||||||||||||||tek tük|||||||||| |||||||||||||||||||||||las|extra|||||||||| |||||||||||||||||||||frequentou|||ímpar|||||||||| Elle: ¿Y cómo encontraste esas clases y cuántas... era como un curso de clases o simplemente ibas a alguna que otra y luego estábamos todos solos estudiando? エル：そして、どのようにしてそれらのクラスを見つけましたか、そしていくつですか...それはクラスのコースのようでしたか、それともあなたはただ奇妙なものに行き、それから私たちは皆あなた自身で勉強していましたか？ Elle：你是怎么找到这些课程的，有多少……是像一门课程一样，还是你只是去了一个奇怪的课程，然后我们都在你自己的学习中？

Mischa: So initially, um, it was a course of, a beginner course of eight classes and that kind of got me going, that kind of kept me inspired. ||||||||||初学者||||||||||||||||| ||inicialmente||||||||iniciante|||||||||||||||manteve||inspirado Um, I really enjoyed that course, it was a one and a half hour classes in the evenings after work once a week. |||||||||||||||||Abenden||||| |||||||||||||||||à noite||||| 嗯，我真的很喜欢那门课，每周下班后的一个半小时的课程。 Um, so really not enough to, to learn very much Chinese at all, but enough to inspire me to want to keep going basically. ||||||||||||||||inspirieren||||||| ||||||||||||||||inspirar||||||| I then complete, I completed a couple of other courses after that, um, which were similar, but a slightly higher level each one, but, um, all of them quite basic stuff again. ||concluí|||||||cursos|||||||||um pouco||nível||||||||bastante||| Después realicé un par de cursos más, similares, pero de un nivel ligeramente superior, pero todos ellos bastante básicos. 然后我完成了，然后我完成了其他一些课程，嗯，它们是相似的，但是每一门都稍微高一点，但是，嗯，它们都是非常基础的东西。

So I completed about three or four courses overall. ||||||||toplamda ||||||||no total Um, after that, I've just been mainly self studying, using LingQ, and other tools like that. ||||||ağırlıklı olarak||||||||| ||||||principalmente|||||||ferramentas|| Yeah.

Elle: Excellent. So yeah, self study. What does that involve for you then? 什么|||||| |||ne anlama geliyor||| |||implica para você||| ¿Qué implica eso para ti entonces? What, uh, what kind of methods? |||||métodos 什么，呃，什么样的方法？ What kind of, I guess let's talk about methods first and then maybe talk about LingQ little bit. Mischa: Yeah. I mean, when it comes to methods like I split my kind of Chinese learning experiences intitwo parts because I've been on it for about four years now. ||||||||||||||||на две части||||||||||| ||||||||||||||||into two||||||||||| |quer dizer||||||||divido||||||experiências|em duas partes||||||||||| ||||||||||||||||به دو بخش||||||||||| ||||||||||||||||in zwei||||||||||| ||||||||||||||||分成两部分||||||||||| ||||||||||||||||en dos partes||||||||||| Ik bedoel, als het gaat om methoden zoals ik deel mijn soort Chinese leerervaringen in twee delen omdat ik er nu ongeveer vier jaar mee bezig ben. 我的意思是，当谈到像我把我的汉语学习经验分成两部分这样的方法时，因为我已经用了大约四年了。 Um, um, the first two years, my methods were basically, I didn't have any methods because I was trying to figure out like, how, how do you learn Chinese? ||||||||||||||||||tentando||descobrir|fora||||||| Um, um, los primeros dos años, mis métodos eran básicamente, no tenía ningún método porque estaba tratando de averiguar cómo, ¿cómo se aprende chino? I had absolutely no idea how to learn a language like Chinese, as I say, like completely different challenge to learning something like French when you know Spanish. ||||ideia||||||||||||completamente|||||||||||

Um, so I kind of spent a lot of that two years trying to figure out different, download any apps I could, figure out different ways. |嗯|||||||||||||||||||||||| |||||||||||||||||baixar|||||||| ええと、私はその2年間の多くを、さまざまな方法を見つけ出し、可能な限りアプリをダウンロードし、さまざまな方法を見つけようとして過ごしました。 Things like Duolingo are like the first obvious things that you come across, they have the best like marketing. ||Duolingo|||||||||||||||| ||Duolingo|||||||||encontra|que você encontra||têm|as coisas|a melhor||marketing Duolingoのようなものは、あなたが最初に出くわす明らかなもののようなものであり、マーケティングのようなものが最も優れています。像 Duolingo 这样的东西就像你遇到的第一个明显的东西，他们有最好的营销。 Obviously they have the most money to spend. Obviamente ellos tienen la mayor cantidad de dinero para gastar. 明らかに、彼らは使うべき最も多くのお金を持っています。显然，他们花的钱最多。 So, um, I came, so, so basically the first two years I had no idea what I was doing.

I would like go to my classes, leave my classes and then try and get some, um, language exchange partners, and there's quite a lot of Chinese people on campus. |||||||||||||||||||parceiros de intercâmbio|||||||||| Me gustaría ir a mis clases, salir de mis clases y luego intentar conseguir algunos compañeros de intercambio lingüístico, y hay bastantes chinos en el campus. So there was no shortage of people to speak to. ||||Mangel||||| ||||eksiklik||||| ||||falta||||| So I'd just leave my class and try and practice with Chinese people. |||||aula||||praticar||| だから私はクラスを離れて中国人と一緒に練習してみました。 But after two years, I kind of felt like I need to try something different.

This isn't really working. And that's when I came across, um, Steve Kaufmann's YouTube videos, um, and he was talking about, cause he has one on learning Chinese, um, and it, he discussed how, um, the most important things for him were kind of listening and reading. ||||||||Кауфманна|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| ||||||||Kaufmann's|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| ||||||||Kaufmann's|YouTube||||||||porque|||||||||||discutiu|||||||||||||| ||||||||Kaufmann|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| ||||||||استیو کافمن|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| ||||||||de Kaufmann|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| And that was the first time that like I came across what seems like quite an obvious point, but I didn't realize at the time, which was that input is the most important thing when learning language. |||||||||||||好像||||||||||||||||||||||| ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||girdi|||||||| ||||||||||||parece|||||ponto||||||||||||||||||| Y esa fue la primera vez que me encontré con algo que parece bastante obvio, pero de lo que no me di cuenta en ese momento: que el input es lo más importante a la hora de aprender un idioma. So all the, all the kind of stuff I've been doing at the beginning stage of like trying to use basic words and phrases I'd learned in class and practiced them over and over again with language exchange partners, but not really having any idea what they were saying back to me. ||||||||||||||fase|||||||||||||||praticado|||||||||||||||||||||| Así que todo el tipo de cosas que he estado haciendo en la etapa inicial de tratar de usar palabras y frases básicas que aprendí en clase y las practiqué una y otra vez con compañeros de intercambio de idiomas, pero en realidad no tenía ninguna idea de lo que me estaban diciendo. ですから、クラスで学んだ基本的な単語やフレーズを使って、言語交換パートナーと何度も練習したりするなど、最初の段階でやってきたすべてのことは、実際には何もありません。彼らが私に何を言っているのか考えてください。所以所有，所有我在开始阶段一直在做的事情，比如尝试使用我在课堂上学到的基本单词和短语，并与语言交换伙伴反复练习，但实际上并没有知道他们对我说了什么。 Steve Kaufmann's videos kind of helped me to see that, like there was maybe another approach. |||||ajudaram||||||||||abordagem 史蒂夫考夫曼的视频帮助我看到了这一点，就像可能有另一种方法一样。 And since my previous approach wasn't really working, I felt, um, I thought might as well give this a go. ||||||||||||||||denemek|bunu|| |||anterior|||||||||||||||| Y como mi enfoque anterior no funcionaba, pensé que podría intentarlo. 以前のアプローチは実際には機能していなかったので、ええと、これを試してみたほうがいいと思いました。由于我以前的方法并没有真正奏效，我觉得，嗯，我想不妨试试这个。 And, um, so from then, um, I used a lot of, uh, graded readers, um, at the beginning because, and I blog about this as well, because particularly in Chinese at the beginning the characters are a huge barrier to being able to read even a very basic level. ||||||||||||graduados|||||||||||||||particularmente|||||||os caracteres|||uma grande||||||||||| ||||||||||||graduados|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| そして、ええと、それ以来、ええと、私は最初に多くの、ええと、段階的な読者を使用しました、ええと、私はこれについてもブログを書いています。非常に基本的なレベルでも読むことができます。而且，嗯，所以从那时起，嗯，我用了很多，呃，分级阅读器，嗯，一开始是因为，我也写过这个，因为特别是在开始的中文中，字符是一个巨大的障碍。甚至能够阅读非常基础的水平。

So I found something that was really useful that I hadn't quite, I hadn't discovered the mini stories on LingQ, which if I went back now, I might do. ||||||||||não tinha||||descoberto|||||||||||||| Así que encontré algo que era realmente útil que no había descubierto del todo, no había descubierto las mini historias en LingQ, que si volviera ahora, podría hacerlo. 所以我发现了一些我还没有发现的真正有用的东西，我还没有发现 LingQ 上的迷你故事，如果我现在回去，我可能会这样做。 But, um, at the beginning stage, before I started using LingQ, my main input was from graded readers. ||||||||||||principal fonte||||graduados| Pero, um, en la etapa inicial, antes de comenzar a usar LingQ, mi aporte principal provino de lectores calificados. しかし、ええと、最初の段階では、LingQを使い始める前は、私の主な入力は段階的な読者からでした。 So there's Mandarin companion graded readers I found really useful. |||همراه|||||| |||Begleiter|||||| |||companheiro de leitura|||||| 所以有我发现非常有用的普通话同伴分级阅读器。 Um, um, yeah, so they're basically just short books, short stories. |||||||curtas|livros|| They're not like high literature or anything like that, but they're entertaining enough. |||高深||||||||| |||||||||||unterhaltsam| ||||literatura elevada|||||||| 彼らは高等文学などのようなものではありませんが、十分に面白いです。 Um, they're more entertaining than like your average textbook kind of thing. |||||||média|livro didático||| Um, son más entretenidos que los típicos libros de texto. So I started doing a lot of reading and then listening to the, um, to the CD of the audio, the audio of the books as well. ||||||||||||||||CD de áudio|||áudio|||||||

Elle: Okay.

Mischa: So, so mainly like, um, my methods since then have been embracing this mass immersion approach. ||||||||||||umfassen||Massen|| ||||||||||||benimsemek||kapsamlı daldırma|yoğun dalış yöntemi| ||||||||||||abraçando||imersão em massa|imersão total| 米沙：所以，主要是，嗯，从那时起我的方法就一直采用这种大规模沉浸式方法。 Mass input approach, but without, obviously, without being in the country. So, um, so from, from the UK.

Elle: Excellent. Excellent. And so how, so you said the graded readers, you, you, when you first discovered Steve and then LingQ you were into the graded readers. |||||||dereceli metinler||||||||||||||||| |||||||graduados||||||||||||||||| Entonces, ¿cómo? Entonces dijiste los lectores calificados, tú, tú, cuando descubriste a Steve y luego a LingQ, te interesaron los lectores calificados. Were?You...

was that tough. ||difícil fue tan duro I mean, were you studying the characters, I guess, as you read, were you, were you reading the same story multiple times? ||||||||||||||||||||várias vezes|

Mischa: Yeah, so, I mean, by the time I got to, by the time I started reading graded redesigned, maybe memorized, committed to memory about 500, uh, characters through using flashcards, uh, using Pleco and things like that. ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||Плеко приложение|||| ||||||||||||||||||revised||||||||||||||Pleco|||| ||||||||||||||||||redesenhado||memorizados|comprometido com||memória||||||cartões de memória|||o Pleco|||| ||||||||||||||||||||حفظ کرده||||||||||||پِلِکو|||| ||||||||||||||||||neu gestaltet||einprägsam||||||||||||Pleco|||| ||||||||||||||||||重新设计||||||||||||||Pleco词典|||| ||||||||||||||||||rediseñados||||||||||||||Pleco||||

Um, and that helped. So I was already able to read a bit like, but I'd just been reading short dialogues in textbooks. ||||||||||||||||مکالمات کوتاه|| ||||||||||||||||diálogos curtos||livros didáticos So then when I first started reading graded readers that are graded at different levels. |||||||||||classificados|||níveis diferentes So the first level, the beginner level is like, um, set at like maybe 500 words or 500 characters.

So, um, so I started reading them about two years ago. And when I first started they were like really challenging for me. ||||开始||||||| |||||||||desafiadores|| Y cuando comencé, fueron realmente desafiantes para mí. I was reading above my level I think at the beginning. Maybe I was reading, like I start with the 500 characters one, but they're not necessarily the characters that you have that you've committed to memory. ||||||||||||||||||||||verpflichtet|| Tal vez estaba leyendo, comencé con el de 500 caracteres, pero no son necesariamente los caracteres que tienes que has memorizado. So there'll be lots of unknown characters. 所以|||||| |es wird geben||||| |habrá||||| |haverá||muitos||personagens desconhecidos| 所以会有很多不为人知的角色。 So it was a bit of a slog, but I just... like, because I'd never read a whole book before, when I finished my first kind of graded read a book, it was just like a sense of achievement. |||||||struggle||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| |||||||um esforço|||||||||||livro||||terminei||||||||||||||sensação de realização||realização |||||||苦差事||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| |||||||Mühe||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| |||||||zahmetli iş||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| |||||||کار سخت||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| |||||||esfuerzo arduo||||||||||||||||||||clasificado||||||||||| And also you're exposed to all the grammar patterns over and over again. |||exposto a||||gramática||||| 而且你一遍又一遍地接触到所有的语法模式。 So it was my first sense of like, after kind of reading a few of them, I started to get real sense of like the, the real benefits of mass immersion compared to what I was previously doing. ||||||||||||||||||||verdadeira|||||||benefícios reais||imersão||em comparação|||||anteriormente| 所以这是我的第一个感觉，在阅读了其中的一些之后，我开始真正感受到这种感觉，与我之前所做的相比，大规模沉浸的真正好处。

Elle: Right.

Kind of got the ball rolling. |||||شروع کردن ||||taşı gediğine koymak| ||||a situação| Tipo de hizo rodar la pelota. 有点让球滚动。 What, uh, what did you move on to after graded readers? What kind of content? |||conteúdo

Mischa: So after graded readers, then that's pretty much when I discovered and started using LingQ more. So I mentioned, I discovered Steve Kaufmann's videos, but I didn't immediately make the transition to LingQ. ||||||||||||||geçiş yapmak|| ||||||||||||||a transição|| That was a bit later. Um, so after graded readers, I decided I got to a point where a lot of people get to with graded readers where you've read like the highest level of graded readers, which is maybe like set at 1,500 characters or something like that. |||||||||||||||||||||||你已经||||||||||||||||||| |||||||||||||||||||||||||||o mais alto||||||||||||||| Um, entonces, después de los lectores calificados, decidí que llegué a un punto en el que muchas personas llegan a los lectores calificados donde han leído como el nivel más alto de lectores calificados, que tal vez se establece en 1500 caracteres o algo así. 嗯，所以在分级阅读器之后，我决定我已经达到了一个很多人都可以使用分级阅读器的地步，你已经像最高级别的分级阅读器一样阅读，这可能就像设置为 1,500 个字符或类似的东西。 But that's not quite enough to, um, read newspapers or novels. So there's, uh, there's kind of a, a small gap there, a bit of a gap that you have to bridge somehow. ||||||||小的||||||||||||| |||||||||lacuna|||||||||||preencher|de alguma forma Así que hay, eh, hay una especie de, una pequeña brecha allí, una pequeña brecha que tienes que cerrar de alguna manera. 所以有一个，嗯，有一种，要填补的小间隙，一点空隙，你必须想办法弥合。 So I wanted to make a concerted effort to start tackling native content. ||||||coordinated||||addressing|| ||||||concertado|esforço conjunto||começar|abordando|conteúdo nativo| ||||||齐心协力||||应对|| ||||||gemeinsame Anstrengung|||||| ||||||yoğunlaştırılmış||||ele almak|| ||||||تلاش هماهنگ|||||| ||||||esforzado||||abordar|| 所以我想齐心协力开始处理原生内容。所以我想要下定决心开始着手处理本地内容。 Um, that's where I discovered LingQ. 嗯，这就是我发现LingQ的地方。 And, um, the rest is history, as they say. ||其余的|||||| 而且，嗯，其余的都是历史，正如他们所说。

I mean, since then, LingQ has basically been my main tool for learning. ||||||||||resource|| ||||||||||ferramenta|| I import lots of stuff into it and that kind of thing. |importo|||||||||| Initially, I was working a lot on native dialogues. Um, so there's, um, Wolf and Wawa. ||||||Вава ||||||Wawa ||||Lobo||Wawa ||||Wolf||Wawa ||||||娃娃 ||||||Wawa (tienda) 嗯，所以有，嗯，Wolf 和 Wawa。 I don't know if anyone's heard of that, um, on LingQ, there's a really good podcast, which is two Chinese friends discussing, uh, natural, more or less natural speed. ||||کسی|||||||||||||||||||||||| ||||anyone|||||||||||||||||||||||| ||||alguém||||||||||||||||amigos|||||||| 不知道大家有没有听说过，嗯，在LingQ上，有一个很不错的播客，就是两个中国朋友在讨论，呃，自然，差不多自然的速度。 I think they're designing it for learners, but it's, it's, um, they're using like everyday Chinese, um, and. |||gestalten|||||||||||||| ||||||||||||||chinês cotidiano||| Creo que lo están diseñando para los estudiantes, pero es, es, um, lo están usando como chino de todos los días, um, y. 我认为他们是为学习者设计的，但它是，它是，嗯，他们像日常汉语一样使用，嗯，和。 It's kind of, because it's like a transcript of daily conversation, a lot of the words and phrases they're using a very common, um, so that's kind of the first kind of more or less native content that I started tackling. |||||||||diária|||||||||||||comum||||||||||||||||||abordando Es como, porque es como una transcripción de una conversación diaria, muchas de las palabras y frases que usan son muy comunes, um, así que ese es el primer tipo de contenido más o menos nativo que comencé a abordar. 这有点像，因为它就像日常对话的记录，他们使用的很多单词和短语都很常见，嗯，所以这是我开始处理的第一种或多或少的原生内容。 And then from there I started moving on to radio transcripts of SBS, um, SBS, which is, um, the Australia's like Mandarin channel, which has like, uh, short broadcasts on lots of different topics and radio phone ins where Chinese people living in Australia phone in to chat about everything that's going on in terms of politics and other things. ||||||||||||Служба вещания Австралии|||||||Австралийского канала|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| ||||||||||||Special Broadcasting Service||Special Broadcasting Service|||||Australia|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| |||||||||rádio|transcrições radiofônicas||SBS|||||||da Austrália|||canal||||||transmissões|||||tópicos diversos||rádio|telefone|em destaque||||||Austrália||||conversar||tudo|||||||||| ||||||||||||SBS|||||||Australiens|||||||||Sendungen||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| ||||||||||||اس‌بی‌اس||اس‌بی‌اس|||||استرالیا|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| ||||||||||||SBS Radio|||||||de Australia|||||||||emisiones breves|||||||||SBS mandarín|||||||||||||||||||||| 然后从那里我开始转向 SBS 的广播记录, 嗯, SBS, 嗯, 澳大利亚的像普通话频道, 有很多不同主题的短广播和中国人居住的无线电电话在澳大利亚打电话聊聊政治和其他方面正在发生的一切。 So, so yeah, basically from that, um, so that, that's what I was doing at first with LingQ. And then after that I started doing more novels and, um, and things like that, which, um, which I'm still doing now. Y luego, después de eso, comencé a hacer más novelas y, um, y cosas así, que, um, que sigo haciendo ahora. Elle: Excellent. And to go back to something you said about newspapers there, so you said 1000 to 500 characters isn't enough to read like a regular, um, newspaper article in Mandarin? ||||||||||||||||||||||um artigo regular||||| Mischa: Yeah, I'd say that's right. Mischa: Sim, eu diria que é isso mesmo. I mean, the thing is there's, there's different... people put different figures on the number of characters that you need in order to be literate in terms of reading a newspaper and there's no set number. ||||||||||||||||||||||||literate||||||||||| |||||||||||||||||||||olması için gereken|||okur yazar||||||||||| |||||||||||números|||||||||||||alfabetizado||||||||||| Quiero decir, la cosa es que hay, hay diferentes... la gente pone cifras diferentes en la cantidad de caracteres que necesitas para estar alfabetizado en términos de leer un periódico y no hay un número fijo. 我的意思是，事情是有的，有不同的......人们对阅读报纸所需的字符数量给出了不同的数字，并且没有固定的数字。 Um, but I think to be comfortable, I would probably put it above 1,500. ||||||confortável||||||

I don't know what I put it at specifically, but maybe more like 2000 to 3000. Um, at 3000 probably you start feeling fairly comfortable, but there'd still be characters that come up in the news that you don't know. |||||||||es gäbe||||||||||||| ||||||oldukça|||||||||||||||| |||||||||habría||||||||||||| |||||sentindo|bastante|||haveria||||||||||||| |||||||||there would||||||||||||| But, um, but yeah, I'd say I'd put it around more like that, but certainly after the graded readers, um, which was set at something like one between 1000, 1,500, I still found reading the news very, very challenging. ||||||||||||||kesinlikle|||||||||||||||||||||| ||||||||||||||certamente|||||||||||||||||||||| Pero, um, pero sí, yo diría que lo pondría más o menos así, pero ciertamente después de los lectores graduados, um, que se fijó en algo así como uno entre 1000, 1500, todavía encontré la lectura de las noticias muy, muy desafiante. Elle: So how many... so many characters, how many characters would you, do you think you have committed to memory at this point four years in, right? |||||||||||||||||memorized||||||||| |||||||||||||||||cometido||||||||| Эль: Так сколько... столько персонажей, сколько персонажей, как вы думаете, вы запомнили на данный момент, за четыре года, верно?

Mischa: Yeah. Um, it's very difficult to say, actually, but I recently did um, there's a website you can go on, which is, I forget the name of the website, but it, it asks you a series of, it's like you take a quiz and it basically tells you the vocabulary level that you're at. |||||||||recentemente|||||||||||||esqueço||||||||||||uma série|||||||||||informa||||||| Um, es muy difícil de decir, en realidad, pero recientemente lo hice um, hay un sitio web al que puedes ir, que es, olvidé el nombre del sitio web, pero te pregunta una serie de, es como si tomaras una cuestionario y básicamente te dice el nivel de vocabulario en el que estás. 嗯，其实很难说，但是我最近做了，有一个网站，你可以上，就是网站名字我忘记了，但是，它问你一系列，就像你拿一个测验，它基本上告诉你你的词汇水平。 But it doesn't tell you like specifically how many characters in terms of vocabulary level. 但它并没有告诉你具体的词汇量有多少个字符。 It put me at 11,000 words, LingQ puts me at 15,000, but I think that's inflated. |||||||||||||übertrieben |||||||||||||abartılmış |||||||||||||inflado ||||||coloca|||||||inflacionado |||||||||||||exaggerated Me puso en 11.000 palabras, LingQ me pone en 15.000, pero creo que eso está inflado. 它让我达到 11,000 字，LingQ 让我达到 15,000 字，但我认为这被夸大了。 Uh, Steve, Steve has talked about how it gets inflated for various reasons for Chinese, but, um, 11,000 probably for wording in terms of characters, maybe 3000, but that's just a guess. |||||||||||||||||||Wortwahl|||||||||| |||||||||||||||||||kelime sayısı|||||||||| |||||||||||||||||||redacción|||||||||| ||||||||se inflaciona|||várias||||||||redação|||||||||| |||||||||||||||||||word choice|||||||||| Uh, Steve, Steve ha hablado sobre cómo se infla por varias razones para el chino, pero, um, 11,000 probablemente por la redacción en términos de caracteres, tal vez 3000, pero eso es solo una suposición. 呃，史蒂夫，史蒂夫已经谈到它是如何因各种原因而被夸大的，但是，嗯，11,000 可能是因为字符的措辞，也许是 3000，但这只是一个猜测。 Elle: Um, how about writing? Are you into the writing out of characters? ¿Te gusta la escritura de personajes? 你喜欢写人物吗？

Mischa: So initially I was, um, um, when I first started out, I did spend quite a lot of time writing them out by hand. ||||||||||||||||||||||||à mão Eventually I had to make a choice because I have a full-time job. |||||||||||tempo integral||emprego de tempo integral I have other commitments. |||Verpflichtungen |||başka taahhütlerim var |||compromissos |||compromisos |||obligations 我还有其他承诺。 So it's kind of a, um, a choice about what you're going to commit your time to. |||||||||||||dedicar||| 所以这是一个，嗯，一个关于你将时间投入到什么的选择。 And I just didn't have enough time if I wanted to commit all the time that I have to reading and listening, like using LingQ and other tools. |||||||||||adamak|||||||||||||||| En ik had gewoon niet genoeg tijd als ik me de hele tijd wilde besteden aan lezen en luisteren, zoals het gebruik van LingQ en andere tools. Yeah.

Um, I just didn't have enough time to basically on top of that, like write them out by hand. So I got to about, I think 500, which I've probably forgotten a lot of them by now, but I found that without writing them out by hand, you can still quite, I wouldn't say I don't want to say easily, but there's, there's no problem committing them to memory in terms of visual memory. ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||visuell| ||||||||||esquecido||||||||||||||||||||||não diria|||||||facilmente||||||memorizar|||||||| 所以我到了大约，我想是 500，我现在可能已经忘记了很多，但我发现如果不手写它们，你仍然可以，我不会说我不想说起来容易，但是，就视觉记忆而言，将它们提交到记忆中是没有问题的。 So you don't need to learn to write them out by hand in order to recognize them visually. |||||||||||||||||visuell |||||||||||||||||in appearance |||||||||||||||||de forma visual Por lo tanto, no necesita aprender a escribirlos a mano para reconocerlos visualmente. Elle: Right.

Mischa: So, so yeah, I got, um, I got about 500 eventually, but then I decided to just focus purely on listening and reading. |||||||||||||||||focar|puramente|||| And I think at some point in the future, I may go back particularly because I'm told if I want to pass a proficiency test in the future, uh, which is not a priority for me, but it may be something I want to do in the future that the new system they're talking about, which hasn't been confirmed yet, but the new system may involve uh, writing by hand component. |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||importance||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| ||||||||futuro|||||||||||||||proficiência||||||||||prioridade|||||||||||||||||||||||||confirmado||||||||||||componente de escrita |||||||||||||||||||||||Sprachkenntnis||||||||||Priorität|||||||||||||||||||||||||bestätigt||||||||||||Komponente ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||bileşen ||||某个时刻||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||手写部分 |||||||||||||||||||||||competencia lingüística||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| Y creo que en algún momento en el futuro, podría regresar, particularmente porque me dijeron que si quiero aprobar una prueba de competencia en el futuro, lo cual no es una prioridad para mí, pero puede ser algo que quiera hacer en el futuro el nuevo sistema del que están hablando, que aún no se ha confirmado, pero el nuevo sistema puede implicar, eh, un componente de escritura a mano. 而且我认为在未来的某个时候，我可能会回去，特别是因为我被告知如果我将来想通过能力测试，呃，这对我来说不是优先事项，但这可能是我想要的事情以后做他们说的新系统，目前还没有确认，但是新系统可能涉及到呃，手写组件。 Whereas at the moment they allow you to take the proficiency tests by writing Chinese using a computer, but in the future, maybe they may make you write it out by hand. Oysa ki||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| ||||||||||competencia lingüística||||||||||||||||||||| Enquanto que|||||permitem que||||||os testes|||||||||||||||||||| Mientras que en este momento te permiten tomar las pruebas de competencia escribiendo chino usando una computadora, pero en el futuro, tal vez te hagan escribirlo a mano. 而现在他们允许你用电脑写中文来参加能力测试，但将来他们可能会让你手写。 So I, so anyway, I may, I may go back to it in future. |||de qualquer forma||||||||||

Elle: Okay.

That's interesting that they would as it, add it, sorry, to the test, as opposed to it being there and them taking it away with our modern world, but okay. das ist||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| ||||||||||||||karşı olarak||||||||||||||| ||||||||||||||em vez de|||||||retirando|||||moderna||| Es interesante que lo agreguen, lo siento, a la prueba, en lugar de que esté allí y se lo lleven con nuestro mundo moderno, pero está bien. Интересно, что они добавили его, простите, в тест, в отличие от того, что он был там, а они его убрали в нашем современном мире, но ладно. 有趣的是，他们会将它添加到测试中，对不起，而不是它存在于我们的现代世界中，但没关系。 Mischa: They, um, initially, I mean, there's always been a writing component. 米莎：他们，嗯，最初，我的意思是，总是有一个写作部分。 Elle: Right.

Mischa: But what they'd done in the past last few years is they'd introduced us some test centers, HSK test centers. ||||||||||||||||||HSK тесты|| |||||||||||||||||zentren|HSK(1)|| ||||||||||||||||||centros HSK|| |||eles tinham||||||||||||||centros de teste||| Mischa: Pero lo que hicieron en los últimos años es que nos presentaron algunos centros de prueba, centros de prueba HSK. Mischa：但是他们在过去几年所做的就是他们给我们介绍了一些考试中心，HSK考试中心。 They started allowing people to, um, take the test using a computer. ||erlauben||||||||| ||permitindo||||||||| And like, as you say, that makes perfect sense because the, I mean, that's how everyone writes nowadays. |||||||||||||||||hoje em dia 就像你说的那样，这是完全有道理的，因为我的意思是，这就是现在每个人的写作方式。 Uh, if you can communicate using a computer, then there's really no problem in terms of communicating. ||||||||||||||||comunicando-se But I think, um, the new system hasn't been confirmed, but if they do end up bringing back the writing component, I suspect it's because there's, um, a case to be made about preserving the, the art of writing by hand and that kind of thing, and preserving the tradition of that. |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||maintaining|||||||||||||||||| ||||||||||||||||trazendo de volta||||||suspeito|||||||||||preservar|||arte de escrever|||||||||||preservar|||| |||||||||||||||||zurück||||||||||||||||erhalten||||||||und|||||||||| ||||||||||||||||||||||şüpheleniyorum|||||||||||koruma|||||||||||||||||| |我认为||||||还没有||||||||||||||||||||||||||保留|||||||||||||||||| |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||preservar|||||||||||||||||| Pero creo, um, el nuevo sistema no ha sido confirmado, pero si terminan trayendo de vuelta el componente de escritura, sospecho que es porque hay, um, un caso para preservar el arte de escribir a mano. y ese tipo de cosas, y preservando la tradición de eso. 但是我认为，嗯，新系统还没有得到确认，但是如果他们最终带回了书写组件，我怀疑这是因为，嗯，有一个案例要保留手写的艺术和那种东西，并保留了它的传统。 Elle: That makes sense. 艾丽：有道理。 That makes sense. I mean, the characters are so beautiful and I know you're not writing them out like a calligrapher would, but it's an art, for sure I can see that. |||||||||||||||||каллиграф бы||||||||||| |||||||||||||||||letter artist||||||||||| ||||||bonitos|||||||||||||||||||||| |||||||||||||||||Kalligraf||||||||||| |||||||||||||||||书法家||但是||||||||| |||||||||||||||||calígrafo||||||||||| Mischa: Absolutely.

Elle: So what does, and I know days are different, you know, some days you work, weekends maybe you don't, but what does a day of a Mandarin study look like for you? |||做|||||||||||||||||但是|什么||||||||||| ||||||||||||||||fins de semana|||||||||||||||| Elle: Entonces, ¿qué significa? Sé que los días son diferentes, ya sabes, algunos días trabajas, los fines de semana tal vez no, pero ¿cómo es un día de estudio de mandarín para ti? 艾尔：那么，你知道，虽然每一天都不同，有些日子你工作，周末可能你不工作，但你的一天汉语学习是什么样子的？ Mischa: Yeah, it's interesting because I don't really see it as study anymore because, because it's kind of transitioned to it phase where, um, a lot of things that I would previously have done in terms of leisure in English now I do in Chinese. ||||||||||||||||||перешло|||||||||||||||||||||||||| ||||||||||||||||||transitioned|||stage||||||||||||||||||||||| ||||||||||||mais.||||||transitou para|||fase||||||||||||||||lazer||||||| ||||||||||||||||||übergegangen|||||||||||||||||||Freizeit||||||| ||||||||||||||||||geçiş yaptı|||aşama||||||||||||||||||||||| ||||||||||||||||||过渡到|||||||||||||||||||||||||| ||||||||||||||||||ha pasado|||||||||||||||||||ocio||||||| 米莎：是的，这很有趣，因为我不再将其视为学习，因为它有点过渡到它的阶段，嗯，我以前会用英语做很多事情，现在我会做用中文（表达。米莎：是的，这很有趣，因为我不再把它视为学习了，因为这已经过渡到一个阶段，嗯，我以前在英语中做的许多休闲活动现在我用中文完成。 So for example, I spend, um, most of the stuff I, if I'm reading for pleasure, like in terms of novels, um, I do that in Chinese now instead. |||||||||||||||Keyif|||||||||||||yerine |||||||||||||||prazer|||||||||||chinês|| 所以例如，我花，大多数时间，如果我在阅读小说，出于娱乐目的，嗯，我现在用中文来做。 So that's kind of study time. Así que ese es un tipo de tiempo de estudio. So the typical, if I were to like set out like a day, uh, just for studying Chinese, it would probably involve spending some time reading my novel. ||típico||||||||||||||||||||gastando tempo|||||romance Si tuviera que dedicar un día a estudiar chino, probablemente pasaría algún tiempo leyendo mi novela. 所以典型的，如果我喜欢一天，呃，只是为了学习中文，可能会花一些时间阅读我的小说。 And then, um, listening to, uh, for listening, like I'm watching you, there's a lot of like YouTube channels that I follow. ||||||||||||有很多||||||||| ||||||||||assistindo||||||||canais||| Um, like talking about politics. ||||a política

Um, there's some cartoons that I quite like because they're slightly, so, um, so sorry I say easier, but they're still, I mean, um, yeah, so like there's a cartoon called ... uh and it's, um, about, uh, a girl going about her daily life. |||卡通片|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| |||Cartoons||||||||||||||||||||||||||Zeichentrickfilm|||||||||||||| ||||||||||biraz daha kolay||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| |||desenhos animados|||||||ligeiramente|||||||mais fáceis||||||||||||desenho animado|||||||||uma garota||||| Um, hay algunos dibujos animados que me gustan bastante porque son un poco, así que, um, lo siento, digo más fácil, pero aún así, quiero decir, um, sí, como si hubiera un dibujo animado llamado... uh y es , um, sobre, uh, una chica que hace su vida diaria. It's actually dubbed from Japanese, but that's sort of what I use for like easier stuff is like cartoons like that. ||voiced over|||||||||||||||||| ||doblada|||||||||||||||||| é||dublado|||||||||||||||||| En realidad está doblado del japonés, pero eso es lo que uso para cosas más fáciles, como dibujos animados como ese. And then for harder stuff, like things like sitcoms and political channels where people talk about politics and stuff, a lot of stuff on YouTube basically. ||||||||ситкомы||||||||||||||||| ||||||||Sitcoms||||||||||||||||| ||||||||comedias de situación||||||||||||||||| |||mais difícil|||||as séries de comédia||política||||||||||||||| So I do that. And then, um, one thing that in the past few months I've started doing a lot more of particularly during the lockdown and then coming out of lockdown was because I couldn't meet up with Chinese friends, doing a lot more Zoom calls and that kind of thing. |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||Zoom|||||| |||||||||||||||||||||lockdown|||||||||||||||||||||||||| ||||||||||||||||||particularmente|durante||||||||||||||||||||||Zoom chamadas|chamadas||||| 然后，嗯，在过去的几个月里，我开始做更多的一件事，尤其是在封锁期间，然后从封锁中解脱出来，是因为我无法与中国朋友见面，所以我打了更多的 Zoom 电话以及那种东西。 So I usually most days actually I'll spend some time half an hour or an hour even calling or doing like a, a call with a Chinese friend and doing conversation exchange. ||geralmente|||||||||||||||||||||||||amigo chinês|||| Elle: Excellent. I like that. It doesn't feel like study anymore. What, at what point do you remember when it started to feel that way when it was less of, like you said, some things were slog, of course, the beginning period in any language is a slog, do you remember when you went "huh, I'm replacing english or Spanish or whatever, TV time, book, time with Chinese and it's like it's entertainment now? |||||||||||||||||||||||||Mühe||||||||||||||||||hä||||||||||||||||||| |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||substituting||||||||||||||||| |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||reemplazando||||||||||||||||| |||||||||||||||||||||||||cansaço||||||||||||||||||hum||substituindo||||||||||||||||entretenimento| Mischa: Yeah, I think that, I don't know if it was a single moment. ||||||||||||um único| I think it happened quite gradually and it was quite, um, a slog to get there. |||||allmählich|||||||||| |||||Yavaş yavaş|||||||||| ||||||||||||um esforço||| Я думаю, это происходило постепенно, и путь к этому был довольно трудным. I mean, the, the, um, first lockdown a year ago, um, I basically started like stepping up quite a lot. |||||||||||||||daha çok çabalamak|||| |||||||||||||||aumentando|||| |||||||||||||||aumentando|||| Quiero decir, el, el, um, primer encierro hace un año, um, básicamente empecé como a intensificar bastante.

So previous to that, because, uh, like, as I say, I was working, I still am working full-time. 所以|||||||||||||||||| |||||||||||estava||||||| But with, with when there wasn't locked down, there was less time in the day. ||||||eingesperrt|||||||| ||||||fechado|||||||| So previous to that, I was maybe doing Chinese for like half an hour a day. And then when lockdown happened, I started taking it more seriously. ||||||||||mais a sério

So then I started like spending several hours a day. ||||||várias|horas|| Um, and then gradually through doing that, I think I started to get more of a sense of like, that I could, I could do this for enjoyment and purely pleasure at the beginning during that lockdown, like I still felt it was a slog. |||||||||||||||||||||||||||Vergnügen||||||||||||||||| ||||aracılığıyla|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| ||||através||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||um fardo I was trying to grapple with native materials on LingQ that were above my level, that I still found very challenging, both to read and to listen to, and actually like, um, something I've blogged about as well. ||||grapple||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||written about||| ||||lidar|||materiais nativos|||||||||||||||||||||||||||escrevi no blog||| ||||kämpfen||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||bloggen||| ||||uğraşmak||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| ||||努力应对||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||写博客||| ||||luchar||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||he escrito sobre||| 我试图在 LingQ 上处理超出我水平的原生材料，但我仍然觉得它们非常具有挑战性，无论是阅读还是聆听，实际上我也喜欢，嗯，一些我在博客上写过的东西。 But like, because I was spending so much time and because sometimes I was using materials which didn't interest me that much, I did feel sort of after three or four months when the first lockdown ended, I think in like June last year, um, I started feeling a bit burned out and I took it, I took quite a bit of time off Chinese at that point. ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||brennen||||||||||||||||| ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||terminou|||||junho|||||||||queimado||||tirei||||||||||||| Pero, como pasaba tanto tiempo y porque a veces usaba materiales que no me interesaban mucho, me sentí como después de tres o cuatro meses cuando terminó el primer confinamiento, creo que en junio del año pasado, um, comencé a sentirme un poco agotado y lo tomé, me tomé bastante tiempo libre de chino en ese momento. 但是就像，因为我花了很多时间，而且因为有时我使用的材料我不太感兴趣，所以当第一次锁定结束时，我确实感觉有点过了三四个月，我想就像去年六月一样，嗯，我开始感觉有点筋疲力尽了，我接受了，那时我花了很多时间离开中文。 And I think I actually took like probably three months, the whole summer off Chinese. I just couldn't couldn't face looking at any, um, Chinese at that time. ||||göze almak|||||||| Simplemente no podía soportar mirar a ningún, um, chino en ese momento. Um, when I got back to it, I think maybe that's kind of a moment worth talking about, because although I'd been away from, from it for three to four months, I think within a week of getting back to it, I felt like I was at my previous level or slightly better than my previous level. |||||||||||||||||||olmasına rağmen||||||||||||||bir hafta içinde||||||||||||||||||||||| |||||||||||||||vale a pena||||embora||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| Cuando volví a ello, creo que es un momento del que merece la pena hablar, porque aunque había estado alejado de ello durante tres o cuatro meses, creo que a la semana de volver a ello, me sentí como si estuviera a mi nivel anterior o ligeramente mejor que mi nivel anterior. 嗯，当我回到它时，我想也许那是一个值得谈论的时刻，因为虽然我已经离开它，离开它三到四个月，我想在回到它的一周内，我感觉自己处于以前的水平或比以前的水平略好。 So the three months off hadn't done me any harm at all. |||||||||Schaden|| |||||não tinha||||mal|| And I started to feel from then because I had some distance, um, when you're actually like working really hard, I think a lot of the time you can't really see the progress that you're making, because I had that distance of a couple of months coming back to it and I started to feel, this is slightly easier. |||||||||||distância|||||||||||||||||||||o progresso|||||||||||||||||||||||||| Y comencé a sentir desde entonces porque tenía cierta distancia, um, cuando en realidad estás trabajando muy duro, creo que muchas veces no puedes ver el progreso que estás haciendo, porque tenía eso. distancia de un par de meses volviendo a eso y comencé a sentir que esto es un poco más fácil. I'm starting to get more pleasure. I'm starting to like reading like novels and stuff like that. Isn't so much of a slog anymore. |||||um fardo| |||||trabajo arduo| Ya no es tan difícil. Elle: Excellent. So there's hope for anyone listening who is maybe in that situation Mischa mentioned before. 因此，任何可能处于Mischa 之前提到的那种情况的听众都有希望。 You can get to the point where it's, it's more fun and less of a slog for sure. |||||||||||||||trabajo pesado|| ||||||||||mais divertido||||||| Puedes llegar al punto donde es, es más divertido y menos complicado, seguro. Mischa: Um, absolutely. Yeah.

I mean, cause when you're in that moment, like sometimes I think particularly if you're a first time language learner, as I consider myself a first time language learner, because I don't really count learning French at school or being bilingual in Spanish and English. ||||||||||||||||||||||considero|||||||||||considero||||||||||| 我的意思是，因为当你在那个时刻，就像有时我特别想，如果你是第一次语言学习者，因为我认为自己是第一次语言学习者，因为我真的不计算在学校学习法语或西班牙语和英语双语。 So being a first time language learner, I think if you, um, I think that like it's something that you can lose sight of. |||||||||||||||||||||gözden kaçırmak||"gözden" |||||||||||||||||||||perder de vista|visão| Entonces, siendo un estudiante de idiomas por primera vez, creo que si te gusta, creo que es algo que puedes perder de vista. 所以作为第一次语言学习者，我想如果你，嗯，我认为这是你可以忽略的东西。 Like it's, you know, because you, you see people out there polyglots like Steve and others that have done it. |||||||||||os poliglotas|||||||| Como es, ya sabes, porque ves gente políglota como Steve y otros que lo han hecho. So, you know, it's possible to do, but you don't, you haven't yet internalized that because you've never done it. |||||||||||||усвоил|||||| |||||||||||||absorbed|||||| ||||possível|||||||não tens||internalizado|||||| |||||||||||||verinnerlicht|||||| |||||||||||||içselleştirdin|||||| |||||||||||||内化的|||||| |||||||||||||internalizado|||||| Is is very, it's a very difficult thing to kind of internalize those it's possible to do when you're in that moment. |||||||||||усвоить|||||||||| |||||||||||internalisieren|||||||||| |||||||||||absorb mentally|||||||||| |||||||||||internalizar|||||||||| |||||||||||internalizar|||||||||| Es muy, es muy difícil internalizar lo que es posible hacer cuando estás en ese momento. And you don't feel you're making any progress. Elle: Yeah. For sure. And you think too, okay, well, yeah, that person's done it, but they have some special talent or skill that I clearly don't have It's so easy to convince yourself of that. ||||||||||||||||Talent||||||||||||überzeugen||| ||||||||a pessoa||||||||talento||habilidade|||claramente|||||é tão fácil||convencer||| Y piensas también, está bien, bueno, sí, esa persona lo ha hecho, pero tiene algún talento o habilidad especial que yo claramente no tengo. Es muy fácil convencerse de eso. Mischa: And I think on that point, like, because that's definitely something I think, I I've thought in the past, well, they must just be talented. ||||||||||definitivamente|||||||||||||||talentosos Mischa: Y creo que en ese punto, porque definitivamente es algo que creo, he pensado en el pasado, bueno, deben ser talentosos. That kinda thing. |so eine Art| |meio que| Ese tipo de cosas. Cause you see the end-product of them speaking fluently. |||||||||fließend |||||resultado final||||com fluência Um, I think the main talent is the ability to spend several hours like on end, like the way Steve describes spending eight hours when he learned Chinese in his twenties, spending eight hours a day concentrated, like just doing Chinese and like from a beginner level, I think there's talent involved in, in that level of concentration. ||||||||||||||||||||beschreibt||||||||||zwanziger Jahre||||||zentrisch|||||||||||||||||||||zentration ||||||||||||||||||||descreve||||||||||vinte anos||||||concentrado|||||||||||||||envolvida||||||concentração And, um, I personally like haven't reached that level. |||pessoalmente|||alcançado|| Maybe in future I'll be able to, but like, like, um, yeah, I I'm, if I can get like, um, a few hours in a couple of hours, then that's okay. Tal vez en el futuro pueda hacerlo, pero como, como, um, sí, yo soy, si puedo obtener, um, unas pocas horas en un par de horas, entonces está bien. A good day for me.

Elle: Yeah. Such discipline, right? |Disziplin| |disciplina| You just have to be so persistent. ||||||persistent ||||||persistente ||||||hartnäckig ||||||Çok ısrarcı olmalısın. |||||如此| ||||||persistente Yeah, for sure. Has there been anything that's surprised you on your, on your Mandarin learning journey so far? |||||surpreendido||||||||caminho||até agora ¿Ha habido algo que te haya sorprendido en tu viaje de aprendizaje del mandarín hasta ahora? Mischa: Um, I think lots of things have surprised me. I think one, I think they've mostly being positive surprises because I mean the initial surprise of learning Mandarin I would say was slightly negative because I went into it very naively. |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||天真 |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||naiv |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||without much thought |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||ingenuamente |||||elas têm|principalmente||positivas|surpresas||||||surpresa|||||||||negativa|||||||ingenuamente Creo que una, creo que en su mayoría han sido sorpresas positivas porque me refiero a que la sorpresa inicial de aprender mandarín diría que fue ligeramente negativa porque lo comencé de manera muy ingenua. And so I had no idea what learning Mandarin involved. ||||||什么||| ||||||||mandarim| So the initial surprise was, oh, this is actually like quite hard. |||||||||como||

This is like, not... this, this is the amount of work that this is going to require is like an order of magnitude above anything I've done before if I want to become like properly fluent in Mandarin. ||||||||||||||||||||||scale||||||||||||||| ||||||||||||||||gerektirmek||||||büyüklük derecesi||||||||||||||| ||||||||||||||||exigir||||||||||||||||||adequadamente|fluente de verdade|| Esto es como, no... esto, esta es la cantidad de trabajo que esto va a requerir es como un orden de magnitud por encima de todo lo que he hecho antes si quiero llegar a ser fluido en mandarín. So I, as a completely naive language learner, that was my initial surprise. |||||naiv||||||| |||||naive||||||| |||||ingenuo||||||| |||||ingênuo||||||| Once you get over that surprise...

and once I got over that surprise, the surprise, the surprises after that were all positive in the sense that after that initial surprise, you start to wonder, is this possible? y una vez que superé esa sorpresa, la sorpresa, las sorpresas posteriores fueron todas positivas en el sentido de que después de esa sorpresa inicial, comienzas a preguntarte, ¿es esto posible? Am I ever going to be able to do this? Is learning characters possible? Particularly characters, I would say. Um, and, and the surprises that no, if you, if you stick at it, do it every day, um, spaced repetition, flashcards, they will stick. |||||||||||||||||||zeitlich gestaffelt||||| |||||||||||||||||||spaced||||| |||||||||||persistir||||||||espaçada|||||se você persistir Um, y, y las sorpresas que no, si tú, si te apegas a eso, lo haces todos los días, um, repetición espaciada, tarjetas didácticas, se pegarán. And particularly because one of my concerns was you hear a lot about some people are visual learners, some people are audio learners or whatever. ||||||担忧|||||||||||||||||| ||||||Sorgen|||||||||||||||||| ||||||preocupações|||ouvir||||||||||||||| And, um, in my case I'm definitely not a visual learner, in my opinion. |||||||||||||opinião I don't know if there's any, if that's meaningful or not like whether these categories are meaningful or not, but yeah. ||||||||||||||Kategorien|||||| ||||||||||||||categorias|||||| No sé si hay alguno, si es significativo o no, si estas categorías son significativas o no, pero sí. Um, never considered myself to be a visual learner or to like have a visual memory, anything like that. ||considerado|||||||||||||||| So I was concerned maybe that that would be an impediment to learning characters and yeah, the surprising thing, the positive surprise was that no, if you stick at it every day, it doesn't matter whether you're a visual learner or not like you will, they will stick, you'll be able to pick up characters. ||||||||||obstacle|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| ||||||||||impedimento|||||||surpreendente|||||||||||||||||||||||||como|||||persistir|você conseguirá||||aprenderá|| ||||||||||Hindernis|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| ||||||||||engel|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| ||||||||||障碍|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| ||||||||||obstáculo|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| So, so that was positive.

Elle: Excellent. |Excelente Um, so what does the future hold? ||||||barındırmak ||||||depara |||verbo auxiliar|||traz Um, entonces, ¿qué depara el futuro? As you say, four years, And you have your website I'm learning mandarin.com. |tu|dizes||||||||||| Is the next year or two just Mandarin focussed? ||||||||专注于普通话 ||||||||auf Mandarin fokussiert ||||||||focused ||||||||focado no mandarim ||||||||enfocado en mandarín Do you, are you hoping to move on to another language?

Mischa: So I think for the time being, I'm definitely quite committed to Mandarin because I've reached a level, which for me personally is fairly gratifying. |||||||||||||||||||||||||令人满意的 |||||||||||||||||||||||||befriedigend |||||||||||||||||||||||||gratifying = satisfying ||||||||||||||||alcancei||||||||bastante|gratificante |||||||||||||||||||||||||tatmin edici Mischa: Así que creo que por el momento, definitivamente estoy bastante comprometido con el mandarín porque he alcanzado un nivel que para mí personalmente es bastante gratificante. I mean, I'm able to have like long conversations about lots of different topics with my friends and that kind of thing. Um, there are still things that I want to achieve in Mandarin personally, that I haven't yet achieved. |||||||||alcançar||||||||alcançar And particularly in terms of listening fluency, um, just general fluency as well. ||||||fluência|||||| Being able to express myself. I don't want to get to an, a native level. I'm not so sure interested in that. Like some people are, but, um, I do want to get to a slightly higher level of fluency than I am at the moment. |||||||||||||ligeiramente|||||||||| Como algunas personas, pero, um, quiero llegar a un nivel de fluidez ligeramente superior al que tengo en este momento. Um, and just general improvement across, across the board in terms of listening and, and reading as well. ||||Verbesserung||||||||||||| ||||||||genel olarak||||||||| ||||melhoria||||em geral|||||||||

Um, because for example, in reading with characters, Um, I know enough that like reading novels on LingQ is generally very comfortable, but if, if they're on paper, it's a lot more difficult because you need to look up every word in the dictionary. |||||||||||||||||||||||||||papel||||||||||||||||dicionário And, um, although I may recognize 95%, that 5% is still very difficult to cope with on papers, not so much on LingQ. |||||||||||||||Aufgaben||||| ||embora||||||||||lidar|||nos textos|||||

So there are still those areas that I really want to improve. |||||áreas|||||| And in terms of, uh, blogging and that kind of thing, definitely want to continue blogging. |||||博客写作|||||||||| |||||Bloggen|||||||||| |||||blogging|||||||||| |||||blogar|||||||||| |||||bloguear||||||||||blogueando Um, my insights about my experience and I'm, I'm interested in maybe getting more into YouTube, this kind of stuff, which I've never done before, this is my first time. |我的|||||||||||||||||||||||||||| ||Einsichten||||||||||||||||||||||||||| ||görüşlerim|||||||||||||YouTube'a girmek|||||||||||||| ||percepções||||||||||||||||||||||||||| ||understanding||||||||||||||||||||||||||| Maybe start like joining the ranks of the kind of YouTube exhibitionists who like speak different languages, which is another thing, um, I wouldn't mind trying in the future, but so there's a few things I'm interested in, but generally just, um, continuing, improving my Chinese and learning and blogging about the learning. |||||||||||эксгибиционисты YouTube||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| |||||ranks = groups||||||exhibitionists||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| |||||as fileiras||||||exibicionistas|||||||||||||não me importo|||||||||||||||||||melhorando||||||||| |||||Reihen||||||Exhibitionisten||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| |||||||||||Teşhircilik yapanlar||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| |||||||||||展览主义者||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| |||||||||||exhibicionistas de YouTube||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| Elle: Excellent. Sounds good. I just wanna apologize if anyone can hear banging my adorable and very lively nephews are right above me. ||||||||||очаровательные|||||||| ||||||||banging||adorable|||||||| ||quero ver|desculpar|||||batendo||adoráveis|||muito animados|meus sobrinhos|||| |||entschuldigen|||||klopfen||adorable|||lebhaft|Neffen|||| |||||||||我的|可爱的||||||就在|| ||||||||golpes|||||vivaces|sobrinos|||| It's kind of stomping. |||топанье |||making a loud heavy step |||batendo |||stampfen |||Bir tür ezme. |||跺脚 |||Es como pisotear. I don't know if that's going to carry through, but maybe. No sé si eso se llevará a cabo, pero tal vez. The joys of working from home. |Freuden|||| |joys|||| |as alegrias|||| Las alegrías de trabajar desde casa. Um, excellent. I was going to say to you actually, yeah, you should start a YouTube channel.

Definitely. I mean, that's where everyone's at and you, I think it'd be great. ||||||||||it would|| ||||||||||sería|| ||||todos estão|||||acho|seria|| Quiero decir, ahí es donde están todos y tú, creo que sería genial. So, and you know, people love, you know, when you're learning a language, you love to see, like you said that it can be done, you know, someone's progress week by week or every other week whenever you post something. |||||||||||||||||||||||||||o progresso de alguém|||||||||sempre que||publica| Entonces, ya sabes, a la gente le encanta, ya sabes, cuando estás aprendiendo un idioma, te encanta ver, como dijiste que se puede hacer, ya sabes, el progreso de alguien semana a semana o cada dos semanas cada vez que publicas algo. . Um, yeah.

Mischa: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

I mean, those YouTube channels have really helped me. Um, particularly people like Steve Kaufmann, there's also Luke Truman. ||||||||Luke| |||||||||Truman |||||||||Truman |||||Kaufmann|||Luke Truman|Luke Truman Yeah, but people like that, like you watch the videos and you, you can, if you're a beginner, particularly you can see what's possible, um, that they really can speak Chinese fluently that, um, they've done it in adulthood. ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||成年期 ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||Erwachsenenalter ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||adulthood ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||adultez |||||||assistir|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||na idade adulta Sí, pero a la gente le gusta eso, como que miras los videos y puedes, si eres un principiante, particularmente puedes ver lo que es posible, um, que realmente pueden hablar chino con fluidez que, um, lo han hecho. en la edad adulta So why can't you? Um, and often like very insightful. |||||insightful |||||perspicaz |||||einsichtig |||||anlamlı |||||深刻的 |||||muy perspicaz Um, y a menudo como muy perspicaz. So, so yeah, I'm open to contributing to that kind of thing. |||我|||||||| ||||||katkıda bulunmak||||| ||||||contribuir||||| Elle: Perfect. Well, best of luck. |||boa sorte We'll be following along. ||takip edeceğiz|takip edeceğiz ||acompanhando| I'll pop the link to your website I'm learning mandarin.com. I'll also pop the link to the blog post that you wrote for the LingQ blog about learning Chinese on LingQ which is excellent. ||||||||||||||||关于||||||| |||||||||||escreveste|||||||||||| And yeah, any other. Uh, content that you mentioned, um, to, for anyone listening, watching, we'll also be in the description. So, uh, Mischa, thank you so much. ||Mischa|||| That was a really great chat and I wish you all the best luck with your blogging and maybe YouTubing in the future. |||||||||||||||||||занятиями на YouTube||| |||||||||||||||||||YouTube machen||| ||||||||||||||||blogging|||hacer videos en YouTube||| ||||||||desejo|||||||||||YouTube||| |||||||||||||||||||视频创作|||

Mischa: Perfect. Mischa: Perfecto.| Thank you for having me on.

Elle: Cheers. |salud |Saúde Bye-bye.

Mischa: Thanks, bye.