×

Używamy ciasteczek, aby ulepszyć LingQ. Odwiedzając stronę wyrażasz zgodę na nasze polityka Cookie.

image

English LingQ 2.0 Podcast, Learn English LingQ Podcast #39: Writing a Best Selling Novel | with Nazanine Hozar (1)

Learn English LingQ Podcast #39: Writing a Best Selling Novel | with Nazanine Hozar (1)

Hello everyone and welcome to the LingQ podcast with me Elle.

Remember if you're studying English, you can study in this podcast

episode, along with any of the past episodes as an English lesson on

LingQ, I'll always pop the lesson link in the description of the video.

LingQ is an excellent way to learn from all kinds of content.

My favorite thing to do right now is study French with Netflix shows.

Super easy to do all you need is the LingQ importer, go to Netflix, find

your show, make sure it has subtitles in your target language, click and viola!

You have your lesson.

I like to then go through the transcript before I watch the show, then watch the

show with the subtitles on in French.

You can do it with movies and not just Netflix, all kinds of other streaming

services as well as YouTube of course.

So give it a try.

If you use Spotify, SoundCloud, Apple, or Google to listen to your

podcasts, remember that we are there.

The links are also in the description and don't forget to give this

episode a like, a follow, give us a review, show us some love.

We'd really appreciate it.

This Week, I have a treat for you listeners.

I am joined by Canadian.

novelist Nazanine Hozar.

Naz, How's it going?

Hi, Elle.

How are you?

Good.

I'm good.

Yeah, I'm good.

Thank you so much for coming on.

So your debut novel...

I just want to tell you, first off I loved, loved, loved, loved.

Um, I read it when it first came out and I could not put it down.

It was one of those books where I was like, looking forward to going to bed.

Cause I read before I go to sleep.

Um, and yeah, I would just be like so excited to read Aria.

And I remember that the, uh, I had quite a few pages left until I finished it one

night and I had, I just had to finish it.

So you made me probably late for work one day.

So thank you.

You're welcome.

Um, so Aria is a coming of age story.

The protagonist Aria, um, follows her life in, in Iran, primarily in Tehran.

Yes.

And, um, she is kind of mothered by three flawed women.

Aren't we all...

yeah.

Uh, fantastic.

I just want to read actually part of the review, one of the reviews you

got from Margaret Atwood no less.

Another amazing, amazing Canadian novelist.

So she said about Aria: a sweeping saga about the Iranian revolution

is as it explodes told from the ground level and the center of

chaos, a Doctor Zhivago of Iran.

Yeah.

That must have felt pretty nice!

It still hasn't hit me.

I still haven't absorbed, absorbed that.

I don't think I ever will.

Quite crazy.

Congratulations first off, I want to say.

And, um, yeah, so my first question to you is I always want to know

if, especially when a novelist...

about a novelist's first novel is the story of Aria something that was kind of

in you waiting to burst out or did you decide to write a novel and then think,

okay, well, what story do I want to tell?

And it kind of came from there.

Oh, that's such a...

you know, nobody's ever asked me that question before.

Oh really?

People have asked Like, is it based on you?

Or, um, or, you know, what inspired it?

But no one's ever sort of broken it up into that, those two kinds of

categories, because what basically happened was there were parts of it that

were inside me from a very young age.

And then when I then came to realize that I had to write a novel about it, I started

writing those, those feelings out that I had had since maybe I was five years

old, but then I realized that a novel can't just be somebody sort of feelings

and emotions worked out through the page.

There has to be structure.

There has to be sort of plotting, there has to be motivation, there has to be

some kind of form and shape that, that, that is a much more of a practical

thing and a tangible thing, instead of just, you know, whatever feelings

you sort of had about life since a certain age, since a very young age.

So then I had to sit and go, okay, well, I have these...

this sort of concept, this character, these various people.

And, you know, I know that it has to end up here in some way, end up where the

ending is and sort of follow their lives.

But now I have to really come up with ideas of how to, in a way novelize it and

turn it into a structural thing, a form.

And so then I had to really, I guess, put on the real creative hat of, of, of

thinking, okay, I know these themes are the things I want to explore now, how do

I create stories around it to do that?

So it's a combination of both, you know?

So yeah, that's very interesting.

Actually, it's the first time I even thought about it in

that way that you just asked.

So yeah.

Good question.

So you mentioned there the process of writing and the form.

That always fascinates me.

One that someone can write something, a novel, period, but your novel Aria

is an epic, uh, complex tale that expands the early 1950s to the '80s?

The early '80s, yeah.

Yeah.

So.

I like, how do you even...

do you even go about, like you, did you do tons of research?

Were they like a million different drafts that you had to write and

different input from different people?

Like what was the process?

Yeah, I did.

I did a ton of research, um, especially for about a year, year

and a half-two period timeline there in the, in the middle of writing.

Um, and I basically at the Vancouver public library, I would go there every

day before work, when, when you and I used to work together, I would hide

myself in the, sort of in the, the, in the bowels of like, you know, old newspaper

clippings and like time magazine and New Yorker, New York Times, and various

like La Monde, you know, Parisian, you know, French newspapers of what

was going on politically at the time.

And then kind of what you have to do with, with research, because you don't want the

novel to kind of turn into a textbook, you know, like a historical text, you

want it to become a real living thing.

And so what you have to do is you have to forget all that research.

So you have to...

oh, I see.

At least for me, I don't know how other people write these types of things.

And then I had to sort of like push it out of my mind, kind of hope

that through some kind of osmosis I had absorbed all of that stuff.

And then when I had to particularly write the scenes that had to take

place later on in the novel, then I had to kind of go, I never did that...

I don't know...

that's just, you know, and it just have to sort of come through and then...

yeah.

And I'm really interested in informant structure as well.

Like, and, and how sort of, you know, I, I kind of wanted this, like basically

there is a main character and then these three mother figures, but there's

as you know, several other characters.

And so how do you...

you're sort of telling this world is sort of unfolding, according to the

point of view of all these different people with her at the center, you know,

this person is like the nucleus of...

Aria is the nucleus of this, all of that, all of that is taking place.

And so the research was there and then you have to forget the research then,

um, when you ask about like, how do you write something like epic like that?

I don't know if I'll ever write a, a novel that's that big.

I might, I mean, the novel I'm writing right now, I think will

be much smaller, but you know, at least a hundred pages or so less.

Um, but the only way that I can explain that, because you say, you know, you

don't know how people write novels.

If you break it down and simplify it, it, it is possible.

And all you really have to do, and this may sound strange, but you just

write one word after another word after another word without like having huge

expectations or thinking, looking at it as this kind of Goliath of a task right?

The obstacle is the way.

Yeah, exactly.

And so you write one word and you write another word write another

word and you count those words.

I mean, that's what I do.

I sit and I say to myself, I'm going to write, you know, if, if it's

a really good day, I'm like, I'm going to try for a thousand words.

And then you'll sort of see in my, uh, cause I usually hand write before

I transfer to, to the computer.

Oh wow.

Yeah.

Okay.

Um, not always, but you know, when I was writing Aria, sometimes I had to do it on

my phone, on the bus to work or to class.

So I'm like take texting it on my phone, emailing it to myself.

But, um, right now I have a bit more freedom.

So, um, Uh, you'll see that in my notebook I've handwritten.

And then you'll see, like on top of the words you'll see numbers.

So I, then I just count it, like, did I reach a thousand?

Did I make a thousand?

And, and so, and I don't know if I'm going to keep those thousand words, probably

out of every thousand words I write, I probably will only keep like 200 or if

I'm lucky 300, but that's, you just have to, you know, approach it in that way.

And then eventually something arises.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Did you ever doubt yourself, um, through the process, like scrap

this and start a different novel?

Uh, I never, I never doubted the idea, that it should be a different novel.

I doubted whether I could ever get it done.

If you could do it?

Yeah, and not get it done.

I knew that I could like finish the story, but then what I doubted

was that it would be any good.

First of all, it'd be terrible.

No one would want to read it.

I think I wrote, before I even showed it to anyone to read, to give me feedback,

like close friends that I had chosen.

I had chosen a couple of close friends that I thought were really good readers

who are writers and creative people.

Before I even submitted it to them, like the full draft I think I had

written it, I had written seven or eight drafts by that point.

And then, and then, yeah.

And then when I finally were...

sold it and I worked with my editor, I don't know how many more

drafts we did, maybe two or three.

Yeah, I did at least 10 drafts and that's on the low side.

Like there are people who do like 20 drafts of a novel,

like I think I'm on the low...

I think that Aria was on the, um, the lower end of draft rewrites.

Yeah.

At 10.

Wow.

Yeah.

Minimum.

Yeah.

Yeah, you have to, but like, you know, when you say, when you use

that number, it's like, okay.

Out of that, 10, four were huge rewrites.

Learn languages from TV shows, movies, news, articles and more! Try LingQ for FREE

Learn English LingQ Podcast #39: Writing a Best Selling Novel | with Nazanine Hozar (1) ||||||||||Назанин Хозар|Хозар ||||||||||Nazanine Hozar|Hozar ||||||||||Nazanine Hoz|Hozar ||||||||||Nazanine Hoz|Hozar Learn English LingQ Podcast #39: Einen Bestseller-Roman schreiben | mit Nazanine Hozar (1) Aprende inglés LingQ Podcast #39: Escribir una novela superventas | con Nazanine Hozar (1) Apprendre l'anglais LingQ Podcast #39 : Écrire un roman à succès | avec Nazanine Hozar (1) Imparare l'inglese LingQ Podcast #39: Scrivere un romanzo best-seller con Nazanine Hozar (1) Learn English LingQポッドキャスト第39回:ベストセラー小説を書く|ナザニン・ホザールさんと(1) LingQ Podcast #39: Een bestseller schrijven met Nazanine Hozar (1) Podcast Learn English LingQ #39: Pisanie najlepiej sprzedającej się powieści | z Nazanine Hozar (1) Aprenda Inglês LingQ Podcast #39: Escrever um romance best-seller | com Nazanine Hozar (1) Учите английский LingQ Podcast #39: Написание бестселлера | с Назанин Хозар (1) Learn English LingQ Podcast #39: Nazanine Hozar ile Çok Satan Bir Roman Yazmak (1) Вивчаємо англійську LingQ Подкаст #39: Написання роману-бестселера | з Назаніною Хозар (1) 学习英语 LingQ 播客 #39:写一本畅销小说 |与纳扎宁·霍扎尔 (1) 學習英語 LingQ 播客 #39:寫一本暢銷小說 |與納扎寧·霍扎爾 (1)

Hello everyone and welcome to the LingQ podcast with me Elle.

Remember if you're studying English, you can study in this podcast

episode, along with any of the past episodes as an English lesson on |junto com||||||||||| episodio, junto con cualquiera de los episodios anteriores como lección de inglés sobre

LingQ, I'll always pop the lesson link in the description of the video. |eu vou||||||||||| LingQ, eu sempre coloco o link da lição na descrição do vídeo.

LingQ is an excellent way to learn from all kinds of content.

My favorite thing to do right now is study French with Netflix shows.

Super easy to do all you need is the LingQ importer, go to Netflix, find

your show, make sure it has subtitles in your target language, click and viola! |||||||||||||вот и всё |||||||||||||voilà |||||||||||||voilà |||||||||||||e voilà |||||||||||||y voilà seu programa, certifique-se de que ele tenha legendas no idioma de destino, clique e viole!

You have your lesson.

I like to then go through the transcript before I watch the show, then watch the |喜欢|||||||||||||| Me gusta repasar la transcripción antes de ver el programa, y luego ver el programa. Eu gosto de ler a transcrição antes de assistir ao programa, depois assistir ao

show with the subtitles on in French.

You can do it with movies and not just Netflix, all kinds of other streaming ||||||||||||||流媒体 ||||||||||||||transmissão online

services as well as YouTube of course. serviços, bem como o YouTube, é claro.

So give it a try. So give it a try. Então dê uma chance.

If you use Spotify, SoundCloud, Apple, or Google to listen to your 如果|||||||||||

podcasts, remember that we are there.

The links are also in the description and don't forget to give this

episode a like, a follow, give us a review, show us some love.

We'd really appreciate it.

This Week, I have a treat for you listeners. |||||uma surpresa||| Esta semana, tenho um mimo para vocês, ouvintes.

I am joined by Canadian. Estou acompanhado pelo canadense.

novelist Nazanine Hozar.

Naz, How's it going? 纳兹||| Naz||| Naz||| Naz||| Наз|||

Hi, Elle.

How are you?

Good.

I'm good.

Yeah, I'm good.

Thank you so much for coming on. Muito obrigado por ter vindo.

So your debut novel... ||debut| ||primeiro romance| Então seu romance de estreia...

I just want to tell you, first off I loved, loved, loved, loved.

Um, I read it when it first came out and I could not put it down. Lo leí cuando salió por primera vez y no pude dejarlo. Hum, eu li quando saiu pela primeira vez e não consegui largar.

It was one of those books where I was like, looking forward to going to bed. Era uno de esos libros en los que estaba deseando irme a la cama. Era um daqueles livros em que eu ficava tipo, ansioso para ir para a cama.

Cause I read before I go to sleep.

Um, and yeah, I would just be like so excited to read Aria. ||||||||||||阿里亚 ||||||||||||Aria(1) ||||||||||||Aria ||||||||||||Aria ||||||||||||Ария(1)

And I remember that the, uh, I had quite a few pages left until I finished it one Y recuerdo que el, me quedaban bastantes páginas hasta terminarlo una E eu lembro que, uh, eu tinha algumas páginas restantes até terminar uma

night and I had, I just had to finish it.

So you made me probably late for work one day.

So thank you.

You're welcome.

Um, so Aria is a coming of age story. |||||成长||| Hum, então Aria é uma história de amadurecimento.

The protagonist Aria, um, follows her life in, in Iran, primarily in Tehran. |女主角||||||||||| |a protagonista|||||||||||

Yes.

And, um, she is kind of mothered by three flawed women. ||||||被母亲般照顾|||有缺陷| ||||||mütterlich betreut|||| ||||||cuidada|||| ||||||cuidada|||imperfeitas| ||||||опекается|||| Y, en cierto modo, está tutelada por tres mujeres imperfectas. E, hum, ela é meio que mãe de três mulheres imperfeitas.

Aren't we all...

yeah.

Uh, fantastic.

I just want to read actually part of the review, one of the reviews you

got from Margaret Atwood no less. |||阿特伍德|| |||Atwood (1)|| |||Atwood|| nada menos que de Margaret Atwood. recebi de Margaret Atwood nada menos.

Another amazing, amazing Canadian novelist.

So she said about Aria: a sweeping saga about the Iranian revolution |||||||史诗|||| ||||||epische||||| |||||||saga|||| ||||||amplia y ab|saga|||| ||||||uma saga abrangente|uma grande narrativa|||| だから彼女はアリアについて言った:イラン革命についての抜本的な物語 Então ela disse sobre Aria: uma saga arrebatadora sobre a revolução iraniana

is as it explodes told from the ground level and the center of |||爆炸|告知|||||||| |||explota||||||||| é como ele explode contado do nível do solo e do centro de

chaos, a Doctor Zhivago of Iran. |||伊朗的朱瓦戈|| |||Zhivago von Iran|| |||Zhivago de|| |||Zhivago|| |||доктор Живаго||

Yeah.

That must have felt pretty nice! Isso deve ter sido muito bom!

It still hasn't hit me. Todavía no me he dado cuenta. Ainda não me atingiu.

I still haven't absorbed, absorbed that. Todavía no lo he asimilado, asimilado.

I don't think I ever will.

Quite crazy.

Congratulations first off, I want to say. Parabéns||||||

And, um, yeah, so my first question to you is I always want to know

if, especially when a novelist...

about a novelist's first novel is the story of Aria something that was kind of ||小说家的|||||||||||| ||do romancista|||||||||||| ||del novelista|||||||||||| ||романиста||||||||||||

in you waiting to burst out or did you decide to write a novel and then think, estabas esperando a estallar o decidiste escribir una novela y luego pensaste, em você esperando para explodir ou você decidiu escrever um romance e depois pensar,

okay, well, what story do I want to tell?

And it kind of came from there. E meio que veio de lá.

Oh, that's such a...

you know, nobody's ever asked me that question before.

Oh really?

People have asked Like, is it based on you?

Or, um, or, you know, what inspired it? |||||什么||

But no one's ever sort of broken it up into that, those two kinds of Mas ninguém nunca dividiu isso, esses dois tipos de

categories, because what basically happened was there were parts of it that

were inside me from a very young age.

And then when I then came to realize that I had to write a novel about it, I started

writing those, those feelings out that I had had since maybe I was five years

old, but then I realized that a novel can't just be somebody sort of feelings

and emotions worked out through the page. ||表达出来|||| e emoções trabalhadas através da página.

There has to be structure. Tem que haver estrutura.

There has to be sort of plotting, there has to be motivation, there has to be ||||||策划||||||||| Tem que haver uma espécie de trama, tem que haver motivação, tem que haver

some kind of form and shape that, that, that is a much more of a practical 一些||||||||||||||| algum tipo de forma e forma que, isso, isso é muito mais prático

thing and a tangible thing, instead of just, you know, whatever feelings |||greifbare Sache||||||||

you sort of had about life since a certain age, since a very young age. você meio que tinha sobre a vida desde uma certa idade, desde muito jovem.

So then I had to sit and go, okay, well, I have these...

this sort of concept, this character, these various people.

And, you know, I know that it has to end up here in some way, end up where the E, você sabe, eu sei que tem que terminar aqui de alguma forma, terminar onde o

ending is and sort of follow their lives.

But now I have to really come up with ideas of how to, in a way novelize it and ||||||||||||||||小说化|| ||||||||||||||||novelizar|| ||||||||||||||||novelizarlo|| ||||||||||||||||романизировать|| Mas agora eu realmente tenho que ter idéias de como, de certa forma, romantizar e

turn it into a structural thing, a form.

And so then I had to really, I guess, put on the real creative hat of, of, of

thinking, okay, I know these themes are the things I want to explore now, how do

I create stories around it to do that?

So it's a combination of both, you know?

So yeah, that's very interesting.

Actually, it's the first time I even thought about it in

that way that you just asked.

So yeah.

Good question.

So you mentioned there the process of writing and the form. ||||||||||a forma

That always fascinates me.

One that someone can write something, a novel, period, but your novel Aria

is an epic, uh, complex tale that expands the early 1950s to the '80s? |||||||se expande||||||

The early '80s, yeah.

Yeah.

So.

I like, how do you even...

do you even go about, like you, did you do tons of research?

Were they like a million different drafts that you had to write and ||||||草稿|||||| ||||||Entwürfe|||||| ||||||drafts|||||| ||||||versões||||||

different input from different people? entrada diferente de pessoas diferentes?

Like what was the process?

Yeah, I did.

I did a ton of research, um, especially for about a year, year

and a half-two period timeline there in the, in the middle of writing. |一个||||||||||||

Um, and I basically at the Vancouver public library, I would go there every

day before work, when, when you and I used to work together, I would hide

myself in the, sort of in the, the, in the bowels of like, you know, old newspaper ||||||||||深处|||||| ||||||||||Eingeweide|||||| ||||||||||entrañas|||||| ||||||||||intestinos||||||

clippings and like time magazine and New Yorker, New York Times, and various вырезки (1)|||||||||||| |||||||New Yorker||||| recortes|||||||||||| recortes|||||||||||| recortes e como a revista Time e New Yorker, New York Times, e vários

like La Monde, you know, Parisian, you know, French newspapers of what ||Le Monde|||pariserisch|||||| ||the world||||||||| ||o jornal||||||||| ||Le Monde|||||||||

was going on politically at the time.

And then kind of what you have to do with, with research, because you don't want the

novel to kind of turn into a textbook, you know, like a historical text, you romance para se tornar um livro didático, sabe, como um texto histórico, você

want it to become a real living thing. |||变成||||

And so what you have to do is you have to forget all that research. Y lo que tienes que hacer es olvidarte de toda esa investigación.

So you have to...

oh, I see.

At least for me, I don't know how other people write these types of things.

And then I had to sort of like push it out of my mind, kind of hope Y luego tuve que apartarlo de mi mente, esperar...

that through some kind of osmosis I had absorbed all of that stuff. |||||渗透||||||| |||||Osmose||||||| |||||osmose||||||| |||||osmosis|||||||

And then when I had to particularly write the scenes that had to take

place later on in the novel, then I had to kind of go, I never did that...

I don't know...

that's just, you know, and it just have to sort of come through and then...

yeah. 是的

And I'm really interested in informant structure as well. |||||信息提供者结构||| |||||Informant(1) Struktur||| |||||estructura informante||| |||||estrutura do informante||| |||||информант(1) структура|||

Like, and, and how sort of, you know, I, I kind of wanted this, like basically

there is a main character and then these three mother figures, but there's |||||||||母亲|||

as you know, several other characters.

And so how do you...

you're sort of telling this world is sort of unfolding, according to the |||||||||展开||| |||||||||desplegándose||| você está dizendo que este mundo está se desdobrando, de acordo com o

point of view of all these different people with her at the center, you know,

this person is like the nucleus of... |||||核心| |||||o núcleo|

Aria is the nucleus of this, all of that, all of that is taking place. |||||||||||||发生|

And so the research was there and then you have to forget the research then,

um, when you ask about like, how do you write something like epic like that?

I don't know if I'll ever write a, a novel that's that big.

I might, I mean, the novel I'm writing right now, I think will

be much smaller, but you know, at least a hundred pages or so less.

Um, but the only way that I can explain that, because you say, you know, you

don't know how people write novels.

If you break it down and simplify it, it, it is possible. Se você decompô-lo e simplificá-lo, é possível.

And all you really have to do, and this may sound strange, but you just

write one word after another word after another word without like having huge

expectations or thinking, looking at it as this kind of Goliath of a task right? ||||||||||巨人|||| ||||||||||gigante||||

The obstacle is the way.

Yeah, exactly.

And so you write one word and you write another word write another

word and you count those words.

I mean, that's what I do.

I sit and I say to myself, I'm going to write, you know, if, if it's

a really good day, I'm like, I'm going to try for a thousand words.

And then you'll sort of see in my, uh, cause I usually hand write before

I transfer to, to the computer. |übertrage||||

Oh wow.

Yeah.

Okay.

Um, not always, but you know, when I was writing Aria, sometimes I had to do it on

my phone, on the bus to work or to class.

So I'm like take texting it on my phone, emailing it to myself. |||||||||发邮件||| ||||Texten|||||E-Mail senden||| |||||||||enviando por e||| |||||||||enviando un correo|||

But, um, right now I have a bit more freedom. Mas, hum, agora eu tenho um pouco mais de liberdade.

So, um, Uh, you'll see that in my notebook I've handwritten.

And then you'll see, like on top of the words you'll see numbers.

So I, then I just count it, like, did I reach a thousand? Así que yo, entonces sólo lo cuento, como, ¿llegué a mil? Então eu, então eu conto, tipo, eu cheguei a mil?

Did I make a thousand?

And, and so, and I don't know if I'm going to keep those thousand words, probably

out of every thousand words I write, I probably will only keep like 200 or if

I'm lucky 300, but that's, you just have to, you know, approach it in that way.

And then eventually something arises. ||||entsteht

Yeah.

Yeah.

Did you ever doubt yourself, um, through the process, like scrap ||||||||||废料 ||||||||||Schrott ||||||||||scrap ||||||||||lixo

this and start a different novel?

Uh, I never, I never doubted the idea, that it should be a different novel.

I doubted whether I could ever get it done. Dudaba que pudiera conseguirlo. Eu duvidava se eu conseguiria fazê-lo.

If you could do it?

Yeah, and not get it done.

I knew that I could like finish the story, but then what I doubted

was that it would be any good.

First of all, it'd be terrible.

No one would want to read it.

I think I wrote, before I even showed it to anyone to read, to give me feedback,

like close friends that I had chosen.

I had chosen a couple of close friends that I thought were really good readers

who are writers and creative people.

Before I even submitted it to them, like the full draft I think I had ||||||||||Entwurf|||| ||||||||||rascunho|||| |||envié|||||||||||

written it, I had written seven or eight drafts by that point. ||||||||drafts||| lo había escrito, había escrito siete u ocho borradores en ese momento.

And then, and then, yeah.

And then when I finally were...

sold it and I worked with my editor, I don't know how many more

drafts we did, maybe two or three. drafts||||||

Yeah, I did at least 10 drafts and that's on the low side. |||||drafts||||||

Like there are people who do like 20 drafts of a novel,

like I think I'm on the low... |||我|||

I think that Aria was on the, um, the lower end of draft rewrites. ||||||||这个|||||重写 |||||||||||||Überarbeitungen |||||||||||||revisiones del borr |||||||||inferior||||revisões de r |||||||||||||переписках черновиков

Yeah.

At 10.

Wow.

Yeah.

Minimum.

Yeah.

Yeah, you have to, but like, you know, when you say, when you use Yeah, you have to, but like, you know, when you say, when you use

that number, it's like, okay.

Out of that, 10, four were huge rewrites.