김종배의 시사통 3월12일 PM
Kim Jong-bae's|current affairs expert|||PM
Kim Jong-bae's Current Affairs March 12 PM
03/13 PM 이 사람의 고국은 어디인가?
PM|this|person's|homeland|where is
03/13 PM Where is this person's home country?
시사통 김종뱁니다.
current affairs expert|Kim Jong-bap
This is Current Affairs with Kim Jong-bae.
여러분 오늘 하루 잘 보내셨습니까?
you all|today|day|well|have you spent
Everyone, did you have a good day today?
다시 김종뱁니다.
again|Kim Jong-bap
It's Kim Jong again.
자, 오늘 나온 뉴스 중에 눈길을 확 잡아끄는 뉴스가 하나 있는데요, 김상권 전 경기교육감이 오늘 오전 10시에 수원에 있는 경기도의회에서 경기지사 출마 선언을 했습니다.
now|today|that came out|news|among|attention|strongly|attracting|news|one|there is|Kim Sang-gwon|former|Gyeonggi Education Superintendent|today|morning|at 10 o'clock|in Suwon|located|Gyeonggi Provincial Assembly|Gyeonggi Governor|candidacy|declaration|made
Now, there is a news story that really catches the eye among today's news; former Gyeonggi Education Superintendent Kim Sang-gwon declared his candidacy for Gyeonggi governor at the Gyeonggi Provincial Council in Suwon at 10 AM today.
그런데 이미 경기지사 출마를 선언한 김영선 전 새누리당 의원이 이 선언장에 등장을 했다고 합니다.
but|already|Gyeonggi governor|candidacy|declared|Kim Young-sun|former|Saenuri Party||this|declaration||has|
However, it is reported that Kim Young-sun, a former Saenuri Party lawmaker who has already declared her candidacy for Gyeonggi governor, appeared at this declaration event.
붉은색 새누리당 점퍼를 입고 등장을 해서 기자들과 질의응답을 벌이던 김상권 전 교육감에게 나도 질문할 기회를 달라, 이렇게 요구를 했다고 합니다.
red|Saenuri Party|jumper|wearing|appeared|and|with reporters|Q&A|was having|Kim Sang-gwon|former|education superintendent|I also|ask a question|opportunity|give me|like this|request|was said to be|be
Wearing a red Saenuri Party jumper, she reportedly demanded to be given a chance to ask questions to former Superintendent Kim Sang-gwon, who was engaging in a Q&A session with reporters.
물론 이 요구는 받아들여지지 않았다고 하는데요.
of course|this|request|accepted|not|is said
Of course, this request is said to have been rejected.
자, 김영선 전 의원이 왜 이 자리에 등장을 했을까요?
here|Kim Young-sun|former|member|why|this|in place||did happen
Now, why did former lawmaker Kim Young-sun appear in this place?
바로 같은 곳에서 30분 간격으로, 그러니까 오전 10시 30분에 이, 자신의 공약을 밝히는 기자회견이 예정되어 있었다고 합니다.
right|same|at place|30 minutes|interval|so|morning|10 o'clock|at 30 minutes|this|his|pledge|revealing|press conference|scheduled|was|
It is reported that a press conference revealing her pledges was scheduled for the same location at 10:30 AM, just 30 minutes apart.
그래서 왔다가 김상권 전 교육감의 출마 선언장에 들이닥쳐서 질문권을 달라 이렇게 요구를 했다라는 건데요.
so|came|Kim Sang-gwon|former|education superintendent|candidacy|declaration|barged in|right to question|give me|like this|demand|was made|is
So she came and barged into the announcement event of former Superintendent Kim Sang-gwon, demanding the right to ask questions.
나중에 김상권 전 교육감이 퇴장한 다음에 이 김영선 전 의원이 무엇을 물어보려고 했는지 물었더니 기자들 앞에서 김영선 전 의원이 이야기하기를, 김상권 전 교육감이 무상 급식을 자신의 공적으로 내세우는데, 이 무상 급식 때문에 특기 교육과 교육 기자재 등은 부실해졌다.
later|Kim Sang-gwon|former|superintendent|left|after|this|Kim Young-sun|former|member||||||||former|||||superintendent|free|lunch|his|publicly|promoting|this|free|lunch|because of|special|education|education|equipment|etc|became inadequate
Later, after former Superintendent Kim Sang-gwon left, I asked what former lawmaker Kim Young-sun was trying to ask, and she said in front of the reporters that former Superintendent Kim Sang-gwon was using free school meals as his public achievement, but because of these free meals, special education and educational materials have become inadequate.
바로 이런 점을 한 번 지적하면서 입장을 물어보고 싶었다, 이렇게 이야기를 했다고 합니다.
right|this||one|time|while pointing out|position|asking|wanted|like this|story|said|is
She mentioned that she wanted to point out this issue and ask for a position on it.
뭐 정책에 대한 뭐 판단과 해석은 사람마다 다를 수가 있죠.
what|about the policy|regarding||judgment and|interpretation|by each person|different|possibility|is
Well, judgments and interpretations of policies can vary from person to person.
그래서 얼마든지 그거에 대해서 공격할 수도 있고 질문을 할 수도 있을 것 같은데, 지금으로서는 이제 상대 후보 아니겠습니까.
so|at any time|that|about|attack|possibility|there is|question|to|possibility|be|thing|like|for now|now|opposing|candidate|isn't it
So, it seems that one could attack or question that as much as they want, but for now, they are the opposing candidate, aren't they?
상대 후보의 출마 선언장에 등장을 한다.
opponent|candidate's|candidacy|declaration|appearance|makes
He appears at the opponent's candidacy declaration.
그래서 질문을 행사하려고, 질문권을 행사하려고 했다.
so|question|to exercise|right to question|to exercise|I did
So, I was going to ask a question, I was going to exercise my right to ask a question.
이거를 어떻게 받아들여야 될까요 여러분?
this|how|should accept|should be|everyone
How should we take this, everyone?
이게 상도의와 강호의 도에 맞는 걸까요?
this|to the principle of mutual benefit|of the river and lake|way|fitting|is
Is this in accordance with the principles of propriety and the way of the strong?
판단은 한 번 여러분에게 맡겨보도록 하겠습니다.
the judgment|one|time|to you|I will leave it|
I will leave the judgment to you this time.
자, 매주 수요일 저녁 방송은 오창익 인권연대 사무국장과 함께 하죠.
now|every week|Wednesday|evening|broadcast|Oh Chang-ik|Human Rights Alliance|with the secretary general|together|we do
Now, every Wednesday evening broadcast is with Oh Chang-ik, the Secretary General of the Human Rights Solidarity.
자, <폭력을 넘어서> 시간으로 넘어가도록 하겠습니다.
now|<violence|beyond>|to time|I will go|I will
Now, let's move on to the <Beyond Violence> segment.
(음악)
music
(music)
김종배: 네, 매주 수요일에 찾아오시는 주인공이시죠.
Kim Jong-bae|yes|every week|on Wednesday|who comes to visit|is the main character
Kim Jong-bae: Yes, you are the main character who comes every Wednesday.
이, <폭력을 넘어서>의 오창익 인권연대 사무국장 나오셨습니다.
this|<violence|||Oh Chang-ik|Human Rights Alliance|Secretary General|has come
This is Oh Chang-ik, the Secretary General of the Human Rights Solidarity, from <Beyond Violence>.
어서오십시오.
welcome
Welcome.
오창익: 네, 안녕하세요.
Oh Chang-ik|yes|hello
Oh Chang-ik: Yes, hello.
김종배: 네.
Kim Jong-bae|yes
Kim Jong-bae: Yes.
또 일주일 만에 뵙습니다.
again|week|in|I see you
It's been a week since we last met.
오창익: 세번째 시간입니다.
Oh Chang-ik|third|is time
Oh Chang-ik: This is the third time.
김종배: 그렇습니다.
Kim Jong-bae|that is correct
Kim Jong-bae: That's right.
( 네) 자, 오늘 어떤 얘기를 한 번 꺼내볼까요?
yes)|so|today|what|conversation|one|time|should we bring up
( Yes) So, what topic should we bring up today?
오창익: 어, 그 전에 지난주에 김훈 중위, ( 네) 1998년 2월 24일 판문점 JSA에서 의문의 죽음을 당한 김훈 중위 사건에 대해서 말씀을 드렸는데요.
Oh Chang-ik|uh|that|before|last week|Kim Hoon|lieutenant|yes|1998|February|24th|Panmunjom|at the JSA|mysterious|death|suffered|Kim Hoon|lieutenant|incident|about|I will speak|I mentioned
Oh Chang-ik: Um, before that, I talked about the case of Lieutenant Kim Hoon, who died under mysterious circumstances at the JSA in Panmunjom on February 24, 1998.
( 네 ) 방송을 하면서 오랜만에 김훈 중위 아버님, 김척 장군께 연락을 드렸고 ( 아하, 예 ) 그저께 월요일 점심에 오셨어요.
|broadcast|while|after a long time|Kim Hoon|Lieutenant|father|Kim Cheok|to General|contact|I made|ah|yes|the day before yesterday|Monday|at lunch|he came
( Yes) While broadcasting, I contacted Lieutenant Kim Hoon's father, General Kim Cheok, after a long time, and he came over for lunch this past Monday.
( 예 ) 점심을 함께 했는데.
|lunch|together|we had
( Yes) We had lunch together.
아, 저도 뭐 김훈 중위 사건 때 뭐, 진상 규명을 위해서 여러가지 노력을 했는데 ( 네 ) 그 다음에 많이 힘을 보태지 못했는데요.
ah|I also|well|Kim Hoon|lieutenant|incident|at the time||truth|investigation|for|various|efforts|I made|yes|that|after|much|strength|contribute|I couldn't
Ah, I also made various efforts to uncover the truth during the Kim Hoon incident, but after that, I couldn't contribute much.
또 오랜만에 아버님 뵀는데 어... 점심을 먹으면서 전혀 점심을 못 드시더라구요.
again|after a long time|father|I saw|um|lunch|while eating|not at all|lunch|cannot|he was eating
I saw my father after a long time, and while we were having lunch, he couldn't eat at all.
말씀하시느라고.
speaking
Because he was talking.
( 아, 예 ) 16년 동안 쌓아왔으니까 얼마나 할 말이 많겠습니까.
ah|yes|16 years|during|I have built up|how much|to say|words|will there be
(Ah, yes) After 16 years, there must be so much to say.
( 그럼요, 그럼요 ) 몇 가지 보완이 필요할지도 몰라서 아버님 말씀을 좀 전해드리는 건데.
of course||a few|things|supplement|may be necessary|not knowing|father|words|a bit|conveying|thing
( Of course, of course ) I just wanted to convey your father's words because there might be some supplements needed.
( 네 ) 지금 이제 국방부를 제외하고 다른 국가기관들, 방송에서도 말씀드렸습니다.
yes|now|now|the Ministry of National Defense|excluding|other|national agencies|in the broadcast|I have mentioned
( Yes ) I have now mentioned this to other national agencies, excluding the Ministry of National Defense, and also to the media.
( 예 ) 군의문사진상규명위원회, 국회, 그 담에 국민권익위원회가 모두 다 자살은 아니다라고 결정을 내리고 있는 상태인데.
|Military Questionable Death Investigation Committee|National Assembly|that|after|Anti-Corruption and Civil Rights Commission|all|all|suicide|not|decision|making|in|state
( Yes ) The Military Investigation Commission, the National Assembly, and then the Anti-Corruption and Civil Rights Commission have all concluded that it is not a suicide.
( 네. )
yes
( Yes. )
국방부만 지금 계속 자살을 고집하고 있는 거죠.
the Ministry of National Defense|now|continuously|suicide|insisting on|is|right
The Ministry of National Defense is the only one insisting on suicide right now.
( 네 ) 자살에 꿰맞출려고 하다보니까 뭐, 이상한 자세, ( 네 ) 화약흔에 대해서 설명을 하지도 못하고 뭐 그런 상태인데.
|suicide|trying to fit|while doing|well|strange|posture||gunpowder residue|about|explanation|not even|able to|well|such|state
( Yes ) Trying to fit it into suicide leads to strange positions, ( yes ) they can't even explain the gunpowder traces and are in such a state.
아버님 말씀은 뭐, 순직 처리가 중요한 게 아니라 진상 규명이 중요하다.
father|words|what|death in service|handling|important|thing|not|truth|investigation|is important
What my father says is that it's not important to classify it as a line of duty death, but rather that uncovering the truth is important.
( 그렇죠.
that's right
( That's right.
그렇죠 ) 지금이라도 어, 국방부가 정말 진실을 원한다면 ( 네 ) 공개 토론이라도 하자.
that's right|even now|uh|the Ministry of National Defense|really|truth|if they want|yes|public|even a debate|let's have
That's right ) Even now, if the Ministry of National Defense really wants the truth ( yes ) let's have a public debate.
( 예 ) 그래서 놓여진 상황을 그대로 일반 시민들, 상식을 가진 시민들, 또 전문가들에게 보여드리고 ( 예 ) 자, 이런 상황에서 자살할 수 있는 가능성이 조금이라도 있느냐 ( 네 ) 네, 화약흔도 말씀드렸지만 화약흔이 열 번 쏘면 열 번 다 화약흔이 나오는 건데 ( 예 ) 그, 국민권익위원회에서의 했던 실험의 경우에는 사건 현장에 화약흔이 있었지만 뭐 헌병대에서 들어가고 미군수사관이 들어가고 이러니까 화약흔이 날라갈 가능성이 있다고 그랬대요 군당국에서.
|so|placed|situation|as is|ordinary|citizens|common sense|having||also|to experts|showing||well|this|in situation|suicide|possibility|existing|likelihood|even a little|is there|yes||gunshot residue|I mentioned|residue|ten|times|if shot|ten|times|all|residue|coming out|is|||from the Anti-Corruption and Civil Rights Commission|conducted|experiment|case|incident|at the scene|residue|was present|well|from the military police|entering|US military investigator|entering|because of this|residue|being blown away|possibility|is said to be|they said|from the military authorities
( Yes ) So let's show the situation as it is to ordinary citizens, citizens with common sense, and experts ( yes ) now, in this situation, is there even a slight possibility of suicide ( yes ) yes, I mentioned gunshot residue, but if you shoot ten times, you get gunshot residue every time ( yes ) in the case of the experiment conducted by the Anti-Corruption and Civil Rights Commission, there was gunshot residue at the crime scene, but they said that because the military police and U.S. investigators came in, there was a possibility that the gunshot residue could be blown away according to the military authorities.
( 예 ) 그렇지만 지하 벙커의 제한된 공간이기 때문에 많이 안 날라갔을 겁니다.
|but|underground|of the bunker|limited|space|because|a lot|not|flew away|would have
( Yes ) However, because it is a confined space in a bunker, it probably wouldn't have blown away much.
( 그렇죠 ) 그래도 날라갔을 거라고 생각해서 이번 실험의 경우에 화약흔, 그 화약 총기 발사 실험을 하고 난 다음에 화약흔 체취를 언제 했느냐면 4시간 후에 했다는 거예요.
that's right|still|flew away|I thought|thinking|this|experiment|case|gunshot residue|that|gunpowder|firearm|firing|experiment|after|after|next|gunshot residue|collection|when|was done|4 hours|later|was done|it is
( That's right ) Still, I think it would have blown away, so in this experiment, the gunshot residue, after conducting the gun firing experiment, was collected four hours later.
( 아, 일부러? )
ah|on purpose
( Oh, on purpose? )
네.
yes
Yes.
좀 날라가라고.
a little|go away
I wanted it to fly a bit.
( 예 ) 그래도 다 나왔다는 거예요.
|still|all|came out|is
( Yes ) Still, it means it all came out.
( 예, 예 ) 그러니까 이건 뭐 틀림없는 사실이고 ( 예 ) 자살일 가능성이 전혀 없는 거다.
yes||so|this|what|undeniable|is a fact||suicide|possibility|at all|not|is
( Yes, yes ) So this is an undeniable fact and ( yes ) there is absolutely no possibility of suicide.
( 예 ) 그래서 지금이라도 공개 토론을 하든지 해서 진상을 밝히고 넘어가자 ( 예 ) 대표적인 사건 김훈 중위 사건마저 어, 진상이 밝혀지지 않는다면 다른 사건은 정말 해결하기 난망한거고 ( 그렇죠 ) 국방부에서는 지금 두 가지 사건, 가장 대표적인 군의문사 사건인 김훈 중위 사건과 ( 네 ) 허원근 일병 사건에 대해서만은 ( 네 ) 진상 규명을 꼭 해야겠다는 생각이 아니라 진상 규명을 하면 안되겠다는 생각이 강한 것 같아요.
|so|even now|public|discussion|whether|by|truth|revealing|let's move on||representative|case|Kim Hoon|lieutenant|even the case|uh|truth|not being revealed|if not|other|cases|really|resolving|difficult||in the Ministry of National Defense|now|two|||most|representative|military suspicious death|case|Kim Hoon|lieutenant|case||Heo Won-geun|private|case|only||truth|investigation|surely|that must|thought|not|truth|investigation|if|not be|thought|strong|thing|seems like
( Yes ) So even now, let's have a public debate or something to clarify the truth and move on ( yes ) If the representative case, the case of Lieutenant Kim Hoon, is not clarified, then it will be really difficult to resolve other cases ( right ) The Ministry of National Defense seems to have a strong thought that they should not clarify the truth regarding the two most representative military suspicious death cases, the case of Lieutenant Kim Hoon and ( yes ) Private Heo Won-geun.
( 그래요 ) 국민들에게 다 알려져 있는 사건 ( 예 ) 그래서 군의 명예 때문에 그런지 아니면 예전에 근무했던 군인들을 보호하려고 하는 건지는 모르겠지만 ( 네 ) 진정한 명예는 진실을 위해서 용기를 내는 게 진정한 명예이고요 ( 아 그럼요 그럼요 ) 명예는 그럴 때만 얻어질 수 있습니다.
|to the citizens|all|known|existing|incident|example|therefore|military|honor|because of|whether|or|in the past|served|soldiers|to protect|doing|whether|I don't know|yes|true|honor|truth|for|courage|giving|thing|true||ah|of course|of course|honor|that|only|can be obtained|possibility|exists
( I see ) This is a case that is well known to the public ( yes ) So whether it's for the honor of the military or to protect the soldiers who served in the past, I don't know, but ( yes ) true honor is about having the courage for the truth ( oh, of course, of course ) Honor can only be gained in such situations.
( 예 ) 믿고 ( 예 ) 국민의 아들들을 보낼 수 있는 군대가 되기 위해서라도 ( 네 ) 김훈 중위 사건은 반드시 ( 네 ) 진상이 밝혀져야 합니다.
|trusting||of the people|sons|sending|able|to|military|becoming|even for the sake of||Kim Hoon|lieutenant|incident|must||truth|be revealed|is
( Yes ) To be a military that can be trusted ( yes ) and send the sons of the people, the case of Lieutenant Kim Hoon must be ( yes ) clarified.
김종배: 그렇죠.
Kim Jong-bae|that's right
Kim Jong-bae: That's right.
진실은 언젠가는 드러나게 되있니까요.
the truth|someday|will be revealed|will
The truth will eventually come to light.
( 네. )
yes
( Yes. )
예.
Yes.
자, 그 정도로 가름을 하도록 하고 자, 오늘은 어떤 사례로 한 번 얘기를 해볼까요.
let's|that||division|in a way|and||today|what|as an example|one|time|conversation|shall we have
Well, let's settle on that, and today, what case should we talk about?
오창익: 오늘은 한 탈북자에 대해서 말씀드리려고 합니다.
Oh Chang-ik|today|one|about a defector|regarding|I am going to talk to you|I am
Oh Chang-ik: Today, I would like to talk about a defector.
( 예, 예, 예. )
( Yes, yes, yes. )
홍진희 씨라는 분이에요.
Hong Jin-hee|is|person
It's about a person named Hong Jin-hee.
( 예.
yes
( For example.
아, 여, 남성이세요? )
ah|female|are you male
Oh, are you a male? )
남성입니다.
is male
I am male.
( 아, 남성이세요?
ah|are you a man
( Oh, are you a male?
예. )
yes
Yes.)
1969년생 인데요.
born in 1969|I am
I was born in 1969.
( 네. )
(Yes.)
지금 마흔다섯.
now|fifty-five
I am currently fifty-five.
이렇게 됐네요.
like this|has happened
It turned out like this.
( 예.
yes
( Yes.
그렇게 되네요. )
that way|happens
It turns out like that. )
96년 1월에 스물 일곱살의 나이로 중국을 거쳐서 한국에 왔습니다.
1996|in January|twenty|seven|at the age of|to China|via|to Korea|I came
I came to Korea through China at the age of twenty-seven in January 1996.
( 예. )
yes
( e.g. )
북한에 있을 때의 직함은 인민군 제 7군단 수산부업기지 지도원이에요.
in North Korea|when|at the time|title|People's Army|7th|corps|fisheries production base|is a guide
My title when I was in North Korea was the guide of the Fisheries Department of the 7th Army Corps.
( 예. )
yes
( e.g. )
이게 뭐, 군인은 아니고.
this|what|soldier|not
This is not, you know, a soldier.
워낙 북한이 이제 군에 의한 산업, 뭐 이런게 많으니까.
so|North Korea|now|military|by|industry|what|such|is abundant
North Korea has a lot of industries run by the military.
( 그렇죠.
that's right
( That's right.
그렇죠. )
that's right
That's right. )
하여튼 뭐, 수산 관련 업무를 했다라는 겁니다.
anyway|what|fisheries|related|work|did|
Anyway, it means that they were involved in fisheries-related work.
( 예, 예, 예. )
( Yes, yes, yes. )
어… 이 분이 이제 다른 탈북자들하고 똑같은 경로로 들어옵니다.
uh|this|person|now|other|with defectors|same|route|comes in
Um... this person now enters through the same route as other defectors.
김포공항을 거쳐서 들어오면서 환영받고 ( 네. )
Gimpo Airport|passing through|while coming in|being welcomed|yes
They are welcomed as they come through Gimpo Airport ( Yes. )
그 다음에 곧바로 서울 신길동에 있는 그, 안기부의 안가 조사시설 대성공사라고 하는데요.
that|next|immediately|Seoul|in Singil-dong|located|that|of the National Intelligence Service|safe house|investigation facility|called Daeseong Construction|is
and then immediately go to the investigation facility of the National Security Agency in Sin-gil-dong, Seoul, called Daeseong Construction.
( 예. )
yes
( e.g. )
지금 이제 유우성 씨나 유우성 씨의 동생 유가려 씨가 조사를 받은 곳은 경기도 시흥에 있는데요.
now|now|Yoo Woo-sung|Mr|Yoo Woo-sung|Mr|younger sibling|Yoo Ga-ryeo|Ms|investigation|received|place|Gyeonggi-do|in Siheung|is
Now, Mr. Yoo Seong and his younger sister, Yoo Ga-rye, were investigated in Siheung, Gyeonggi Province.
( 네. )
( Yes. )
대성공사가 경기도 시흥으로 이사한 겁니다.
Daesung Corporation|Gyeonggi-do|to Siheung|moved|is
Daesung Construction has moved to Siheung, Gyeonggi Province.
합동신문센터에서 조사를 받고요.
at the joint interrogation center|investigation|receiving
I am being investigated at the Joint Press Center.
( 지금 하나원이라고 불리던가요? )
now|called Hana One|is it
( Is it now called Hanawon? )
아니요.
no
No.
하나원은 ( 예. )
Hanawon|
Hanawon is ( Yes. )
합동신문센터에서 나온 사람들을 위한 정착 교육기관입니다.
from the joint newspaper center|coming out|people|for|settlement|is an educational institution
This is a settlement education institution for people coming from the Joint Press Center.
( 아, 예.
ah|yes
( Ah, yes.
예. )
yes
Yes. )
그래서 뭐, 안성에도 있고 또 제 2 하나원 이렇게 있는데요.
so|what|in Anseong|exists|also|second|Hanawon|like this|
So, there is one in Ansung and also the second Hanawon, something like that.
( 예. )
yes
( e.g. )
아, 그 전에 소위 위장 귀순여부를 가리기 위해서 ( 예. )
ah|that|before|so-called|disguised|defection|determining|in order to|for example
Ah, before that, in order to determine the so-called disguised defection status ( e.g. )
뭐, 간첩인지 여부를 가리기 위해서 조사받는 곳이죠.
what|whether (he/she is) a spy|regarding|to determine|in order to|being investigated|place
Well, it's a place where they investigate whether someone is a spy or not.
( 네, 네, 네. )
( Yes, yes, yes. )
유우성 씨 사건 국가정보원 검찰 간첩 조작 사건의 피해자인 ( 예. )
Yoo Seung|Mr|case|National Intelligence Service|prosecution|spy|fabrication|of the case|victim|
Mr. Yoo Seong is a victim of the National Intelligence Service and the prosecution's espionage fabrication case.
또 그 사건의 피고인이기도 합니다만 유우성 씨의 동생 유가려 씨가 이곳에서 6개월 동안 ( 네. )
also|that|of the case|being the defendant|is|Yoo Seong|Mr|younger brother|Yoo Ga-ryeo|Ms|here|6 months|for|yes
He is also a defendant in that case, but Mr. Yoo Seong's sister, Yoo Ga-rye, was here for 6 months.
그 누구의 도움도 받지 못하고, 변호사 접견도 못한 채 조사를 받았고 ( 예. )
that|anyone's|help|receive|not|lawyer|meeting|unable to|while|investigation|received|for example
She received no help from anyone and was interrogated without being able to meet with a lawyer.
그래서 마침내 오빠가 간첩이라는 허, 허위 진술을 했던 바로 그곳에서 조사를 받습니다.
so|finally|my older brother|that he is a spy|false|false|statement|that was|right|at that place|investigation|I receive
So, finally, she was interrogated in the very place where her brother made false statements claiming he was a spy.
( 네. )
yes
( Yes. )
당시에는 이제 말씀드린 것처럼 영등포구 신길동에 있었어요.
at that time|now|I told you|like|Yeongdeungpo District|in Singil-dong|was located
At that time, as I mentioned, it was located in Singil-dong, Yeongdeungpo-gu.
여기는 뭐, 시설은 국군 정보사 시설인데 ( 네. )
here|what|facility|military|intelligence|is|
This place, well, is a facility of the Military Intelligence Command ( Yes. )
실제로는 안기부 국정원이 운영하고 있는 겁니다.
actually|the National Security Agency|National Intelligence Service|is operating|is|is
but in reality, it is operated by the National Security Agency.
( 아, 예, 예. )
ah|yes|yes
( Ah, yes, yes. )
안기부, 옛날에는 안기부였죠.
the National Security Planning Agency|in the past|was the National Security Planning Agency
The National Security Agency, it used to be called the National Security Agency.
경찰청 국방...정보...국방부 정보 본부 ( 예. )
police agency|national defense|information|Ministry of National Defense|information|headquarters|
The National Police Agency, Defense... Intelligence... Ministry of National Defense Intelligence Headquarters ( Yes. )
그 다음에 정보사령부, 기무사령부, 다섯 개 기관으로 구성된 합동 신문제의 심문을 받습니다.
the|next|intelligence command|military security command|five|individual|agencies|composed of|joint|of the interrogation|interrogation|receives
Then, the Defense Intelligence Command, the Military Security Command, undergoes interrogation by a joint investigation composed of five agencies.
( 예. )
yes
( e.g. )
아주 짧은 사람도 2-3달 정도 받고 보통 6개월 정도씩 조사를 받았어요.
very|short|person|2-3 months|approximately|receiving|usually|6 months|for about|investigation|received
Even very short people received about 2-3 months of investigation, while usually it was around 6 months.
( 예, 예, 예, 예. )
( Yes, yes, yes, yes. )
맨 처음에 한 달 동안은 신분 조사라는 걸 받고 ( 예. )
the|at first|one|month|during|identity|investigation|thing|receiving|for example
At first, I underwent an identity investigation for a month ( e.g. )
다섯달 정도는 이제 정보 조사를 받습니다.
five months|approximately|now|information|investigation|I receive
For about five months, I will be receiving information research.
( 어, 예. )
yes|yes
( Uh, yes. )
그걸 다 받고 나와야만 주민 등록증을 발급 받고 일반 사회로 나갈 수 있습니다.
that|all|receiving|must come out|resident|registration certificate|issuance|receiving|general|society|going out|possibility|is
Only after receiving all of that can I get my resident registration card and go out into general society.
( 예, 예. )
yes|yes
( Yes, yes. )
근데 이 대성공사에서 합동 심문센터에서 문제가 많았는데요.
but|this|at Daeseong Corporation|joint|interrogation center|problems|there were
But there were many problems at the joint interrogation center of this major corporation.
감금 상태에 놓여 있는 거는 물론이고 일상적인 감시, 욕설, 구타, 고문, ( 네. )
confinement|in a state|being|existing|thing||everyday|surveillance|verbal abuse|beating|torture|yes
Of course, they were in a state of confinement, and there were routine surveillance, verbal abuse, beatings, torture, (yes.)
상상할 수 있는 온갖 인권 침해가 자행됐습니다.
can imagine|possibility|existing|all kinds of|human rights|violations|were perpetrated
All kinds of human rights violations that can be imagined were committed.
홍진희 씨는 이 피해자였죠.
Hong Jin-hee|is|this|was the victim
Hong Jin-hee was one of the victims.
( 예. )
yes
( For example. )
처음부터 맞았대요.
from the beginning|was correct
They said they got it right from the beginning.
( 들어가자마자? )
( As soon as we entered? )
네.
yes
Yes.
대성공사 들어가서 취조실에 들어가자마자 다짜고짜 조사관들에 둘러싸여서 두들겨 맞았고요.
Daeseong Company|after entering|into the interrogation room|as soon as I entered|suddenly|by the investigators|surrounded|beaten|I was
As soon as I entered the interrogation room at the Daesung Corporation, I was surrounded by investigators and beaten up.
( 어, 허. )
uh|huh
( Uh, huh. )
조사관들은 자기들을 선생님이라고 부르, 부르라고 그랬고.
the investigators|themselves|as teacher|call|to call|they said
The investigators told me to call them teachers.
( 예. )
yes
( Yes. )
때리는 사람들이 선생님입니다.
hitting|people|are the teacher
The people who hit are the teachers.
( 예. )
yes
( For example. )
무슨 조폭들처럼 인사는 90도 각도로 해야 했다고 해요.
what|like gangsters|greeting|90 degrees|angle|should|was said|be
They say you had to greet at a 90-degree angle like gangsters.
( 예. )
yes
( For example. )
아, 두들겨 맞는 것도 어느정도 참을 수 있었는데 조사 과정에서 들었던 말은 정말 참기 어려웠다고 하는데요.
ah|beaten|being hit|also|to some extent|endure|possibility|was|investigation|during|heard|words|really|enduring|was difficult|said
Ah, I could endure being beaten to some extent, but the things I heard during the investigation were really hard to bear.
( 네. )
yes
( Yes. )
두 가지 얘깁니다.
two|가지|talking
There are two things.
하나는 인간쓰레기, 또 하나는 후레자식이라는 거예요.
one|human trash|another|one|is a bastard|is
One is human trash, and the other is son of a bitch.
( 예, 예. )
yes|yes
( Yes, yes. )
왜 그러냐하면 아...이 홍진희 씨가 혼자서 탈북을 했습니다.
why|is because|ah|this|Hong Jin-hee|person|alone|defecting|did
The reason is that... this Hong Jin-hee has defected alone.
( 가족을 놔두고? )
family|leaving
( Leaving her family behind? )
네.
yes
Yes.
북한에.
to North Korea
To North Korea.
아버지는 돌아가셨는데 북한에 어머니가 있고 동생도 둘이 있었어요.
my father|has passed away|in North Korea|my mother|is|younger siblings|two|were
My father has passed away, but my mother is in North Korea and I have two younger siblings.
( 예, 예, 예. )
( Yes, yes, yes. )
가족을 놔두고 너 혼자 살려고 도망쳐 나왔다그래서 인간쓰레기 후레자식이다 라고.
family|leaving|you|alone|to live|escaping|came out|human trash|worthless bastard|
They said you left your family behind and ran away to live alone, so you are a human trash bastard.
( 아, 예. )
ah|yes
( Ah, yes. )
협박도 많이 들었죠.
the threats|a lot|I received
I received a lot of threats.
( 예. )
yes
( Yes. )
너는 아직 국적도 없고 넌 아무런 신분도 없으니까 여기서 죽여버려도 아무 상관도 없고 누구도 모른다.
you|still|nationality|don't have|you|any|status|don't have|here|if I kill you|any|concern|not|anyone|knows
You don't have a nationality yet, and you have no identity, so it wouldn't matter if I killed you here, and no one would know.
찾을 수도 없다.
find|possibility|not
Cannot be found.
뭐 이런 얘기를 많이 들었습니다.
what|this kind of|conversation|a lot|I have heard
I've heard a lot of stories like this.
( 예, 예. )
yes|yes
( Yes, yes. )
그래서 처음부터 이게 기를 죽이려고 하는 건지 아니면 뭔가 정말 원하는 게 있어서 그러는건지.
so|from the beginning|this|spirit|trying to kill|doing|whether|or|something|really|wanting|thing|is|
So from the beginning, I wonder if this is meant to discourage or if there is something they really want.
하여튼 구타, 모욕, 뭐 이런 것들이 계속 됐어요.
anyway|beating|insult|things|such|things|continuously|happened
Anyway, there was continuous beatings, insults, and things like that.
얼차례 이런 것도 계속 받고요.
'beaten up'|'this kind of'|'thing'|'continuously'|'receiving'
I also kept receiving such harsh treatment.
( 예. )
yes
( Yes. )
아...인간쓰레기라는 얘기, 후레자식이라는 얘기를 들을 때...정말 그런 상황이 있다면, 다시 말씀드리면 가족을 북한 지역에 냅두고 왔다면 그 말은 정말 가슴을 찔르는 비수가 됩니다.
ah|that I'm trash|talk|that I'm a bastard|talk|hear|when|really|such|situation|if|again|if I tell you|my family|North Korea|in the area|left|if I came|that|word|really|heart|piercing|dagger|becomes
Ah... when I hear words like 'human trash' or 'bastard'... if there really is such a situation, to put it again, if I left my family in North Korea, those words really feel like a piercing dagger to the heart.
( 대못이죠, 대못. )
it's a large nail|large nail
( It's a big nail, a big nail. )
아, 그럼요.
ah|of course
Ah, of course.
얼마나 엄마 생각이 나고 그렇겠어요.
how much|mom|thought|I miss|must be
How much I must miss my mom and all.
( 그럼요.
of course
( Of course.
예. )
yes
Yes.)
20대 청년이.
in their 20s|young man
A young person in their 20s.
( 예. )
yes
(Yes.)
그래서 매일 밤 불면의 밤을 보냈다고 그래요.
so|every|night|sleepless|night|spent|I hear
So they say they spent every night in sleepless nights.
( 네. )
( Yes. )
근데 자기, 홍진희 씨의 담당 조사관이 참 특히 심했다고 그러는데 ( 네. )
but|you|Hong Jin-hee|'s|responsible|investigator|really|especially|was severe|I heard|
But you know, they said that the investigator in charge of Hong Jin-hee was particularly severe ( Yes. )
이 분이 교회 장로라고 그러는데.
this|person|church|is an elder|I hear
This person is said to be an elder in the church.
( 예. )
yes
( Yes. )
교회 장로면 보통 타의 모범이 되어야 하는데 ( 예. )
church|elder|usually|others'|model|should be|be|
If you are an elder in the church, you should usually be a role model for others (e.g.)
어...어떨 때는 이제, 저기, 장로인 조사관이 때리는데 자기가 힘이 빠질 때까지 때리더래요.
uh|sometimes|time|now|over there|elder|investigator|hits|he|strength|weak|until|keeps hitting
Um... sometimes, you know, the elder investigator hits until he runs out of strength.
( 허. )
허
( Huh. )
지칠 때까지.
tired|until
Until he gets tired.
( 네. )
yes
( Yes. )
그, 홍진희 씨는 피범벅이 되어서 쓰러져 있고 자기는 때리다가 힘들어 가지고 지쳐있고.
that|Hong Jin-hee|person|covered in blood|became|collapsed|is|he|while hitting|struggling|with|exhausted
Hong Jin-hee was covered in blood and collapsed, and he was exhausted from hitting her.
( 예. )
yes
( Yes. )
홍진희 씨보고 일어나라고 해서 피곤하니까 자기를 안마하라고 그랬대요.
Hong Jin-hee|to Ms|to wake up|so|because (he/she) is tired|himself/herself|to massage|(he/she) said
He told Hong Jin-hee to get up, and since he was tired, he asked her to massage him.
( 허, 참. )
huh|really
( Huh, really.)
거짓말같죠.
it seems like a lie
It sounds like a lie.
( 네. )
( Yes.)
그 다음에 또 한참 때리고 어떨 때는 머리에 손을 얹고 안수기도를 해준대요.
that|next|again|for a while|hitting|sometimes|time|on the head|hand|placing|laying on of hands|they say they do
Then they hit for a while and sometimes they place their hands on the head and pray.
( 하, 예. )
do|yes
( Ha, yes. )
너 사람되라고 때렸다.
you|to become a person|hit
You hit me to make me human.
미워서 때린 게 아니다.
because I hate|hit|thing|not
It wasn't out of hatred.
( 예. )
yes
( Yes. )
아, 예.
ah|yes
Ah, yes.
하여튼 뭐 말을 듣지 않거나...뭐, 왜 때리냐고 이렇게 한 마디라도 하거나 이러면...뭐, 독방에 감금하기도 하고.
anyway|what|words|listen|not||why|hitting|like this|one|word|or|if||in solitary confinement|sometimes imprisoning|and
Anyway, if you don't listen or... if you say even a word like 'why are you hitting me'... then... well, you might get locked in solitary confinement.
( 예. )
yes
( Yes. )
하여튼 취침 시간, 자는 시간 말고는 절대로 이렇게 눕거나 할수도 없고.
anyway|sleeping|time|sleeping|time|other than|absolutely|like this|lying down|could|not
Anyway, except for sleeping time, you absolutely cannot lie down or do anything like that.
( 어... ) 거의 그, 일제 시대 때 군기 잡는 식으로 이제 군기 잡고 24시간 CCTV 카메라 감시 받고 ( 네. )
uh|almost|that|Japanese|era|during|military discipline|enforcing|in a manner|now|military discipline|enforcing|24 hours|CCTV|camera|surveillance|receiving|yes
( Uh... ) It's almost like, during the Japanese colonial period, they enforce discipline and are monitored by CCTV cameras 24 hours a day ( Yes. )
또 매일 그 감상문, 일기, 회고록, 뭐, 회고록이라는게 조사 받을 때 보통 그렇게 하는데요.
also|every day|that|review|diary|memoir|what|the memoir|investigation|receiving|when|usually|like this|does
Also, every day, they have to write reflections, diaries, memoirs, well, memoirs are usually done like that during investigations.
태어나면서부터 지금까지 회고록을 다 쓰게 합니다.
since I was born|until now|memoir|all|write|I am made to
They make you write memoirs from the moment you are born until now.
( 아...그래요? )
ah|is that so
( Oh... really? )
백 번씩 쓰게하고.
hundred|times|make (someone) write
Make them write it a hundred times.
그렇습니다 ( 예, 예. )
yes|yes|yes
That's right (yes, yes).
이런 것들을 했어요.
this|things|I did
I did things like this.
그래서 홍진희 씨가 뭐, 당연히 맞고 그러니까 부상도 끊이지 않고 오른쪽 손도 제대로 못 쓰게 되고 이런, 이런 상태에 이르게 되는데.
so|Hong Jin-hee|Ms|what|naturally|is correct|therefore|injury also|ceasing|not|right|hand also|properly|not|use||such||state|reaching|becomes
So, Hong Jin-hee, well, of course, it's right, and injuries keep happening, and she can't use her right hand properly, and she ends up in this kind of state.
( 음.
um
( Um.
네. )
yes
Yes. )
자기는 이제 자유를 찾아서 한국에 왔는데 ( 예. )
he/she|now|freedom|in search of|to Korea|came|
They came to Korea to find freedom, but ( Yes. )
한국에서 이런 일을 당하니까 북한에서도 당해본 적이 없는 일이니까.
in Korea|this|event|experiencing|in North Korea|having experienced|instance|not|event
experiencing this kind of thing in Korea is something they have never experienced even in North Korea.
( 예. )
yes
( e.g. )
처음엔 그렇게 생각했대요.
at first|like that|thought
At first, they thought that.
자기가 잘못와가지고 북한 간첩들이 운영하는 어떤 시설에 왔나보다.
he/she|mistakenly came|North Korea|the spies|operating|some|facility|seems to have come
They must have come to some facility run by North Korean spies.
여기가 북한일지 모른다.
here|North Korea|might be
This might be North Korea.
( 오죽했으면. )
how much
( How bad was it? )
네.
yes
Yes.
오죽했으면 그런 생각까지 합니다.
how desperate|such|thought|I have
It was so bad that I even thought that.
( 예, 예, 예. )
( Yes, yes, yes. )
자, 이제 대성공사를 드디어 6개월 만에 나왔습니다.
now|now|great success|finally|6 months|after|has come out
Well, I have finally come out for the great success after 6 months.
( 예. )
yes
( Yes. )
대한민국 국민이 됐어요.
Republic of Korea|citizen|became
I have become a citizen of South Korea.
( 예. )
yes
( Yes. )
그렇지만 대성공사에서의 일은 잊을 수 없는 겁니다.
but|at Daesung Corporation|work|forget|possibility|not|is
But the work at Daesung Corporation is unforgettable.
( 어떻게 잊어요.
how|do I forget
( How can I forget this work. )
이 일을. )
this|work
Especially the insult of being called human trash.
특히 인간쓰레기라고 했던 그 모욕.
especially|human trash|that|that|insult
후레자식이라고 했던 모욕을 잊을 수 없었다고 그래요.
'bastard'|'that'|'insult'|'forget'|'ability'|'not'|'said'
They say they can't forget the insult of being called a bastard.
그래서 이 양반이 생각한게 가장 빨리 돈을 벌 수 있는 게 뭐냐를 궁리하다가 ( 네. )
so|this|gentleman|thought|most|quickly|money|earn|way|possible|thing|what|while pondering|yes
So this gentleman thought about what the quickest way to make money would be.
세신사라고 그러는데 목욕탕 때밀이를 시작해요.
the person who does body scrubbing|is|bathhouse|body scrubbing|starts
They call it a 'sesinsa', and he starts working as a bathhouse scrubber.
( 아, 예. )
ah|yes
( Ah, yes. )
열심히 법니다.
diligently|살고 있습니다
I live hard.
( 가족 데려오려고? )
family|bringing
( Are you trying to bring your family? )
예.
Yes.
탈북자금을 마련하려고... ( 예, 예, 예. )
defector funds|in order to prepare|yes|yes|yes
I am trying to raise funds for defectors... ( Yes, yes, yes. )
그리고 정말 한 푼의 돈도 허투로 쓰지 않고요.
and|really|one|penny|money|wastefully|spend|not
And I really don't spend a single penny wastefully.
( 네. )
( Yes. )
어...돈을 조금 조금씩 모아가면서 안기부 담당 직원이 있으니까 담당 직원한테 물어봐요.
uh|money|a little|little by little|while saving|National Intelligence Service|in charge||there is|in charge|to the employee|I ask
Um... I save money little by little, and since there is a staff member in charge at the National Intelligence Service, I ask the staff member.
가족을 데려와도 되느냐.
my family|can bring|is it okay
Whether I can bring my family.
어, 데려와도 된다.
oh|you can bring|is okay
Uh, you can bring them.
( 예. )
yes
( Yes. )
그러니까 이제 희망도 생깁니다.
so|now|hope|arises
So now there is hope.
그리고 공부도 열심히 해가지고요 그 사이에 고려대학교 중문학과에 입학하기도 해요.
and|studying|diligently|I also|that|in the meantime|Korea University|Department of Chinese Language and Literature|I also get admitted|I do
And I also study hard and in the meantime, I get admitted to the Department of Chinese Literature at Korea University.
( 어이고, 예. )
oh|yes
( Oh, yes. )
그러니까 이를테면 좀 탈북해서 대한민국에 잘 정착한 케이스죠.
so|for example|somewhat|defecting|to South Korea|well|settled|case
So, for example, it's a case of someone who defected and settled well in South Korea.
( 그렇죠.
that's right
( That's right.
그렇죠. )
that's right
That's right. )
처음 6개월 동안은 지옥같은 고생을 했지만 그래도 뭐, 목욕탕 때밀이라도 하면서 이제 계속 돈을 모으고 있었고.
the first|6 months|during|hellish|hardship|I had|still|well|bathhouse|even as a scrubber|while|now|continuously|money|saving|was
The first six months were hellish, but still, I was saving money by working as a bathhouse scrubber.
( 네. )
yes
( Yes. )
대학도 들어갈 수 있었으니까요.
university|enter|possibility|was able to
I was able to get into college.
( 예. )
yes
( Yes. )
그러다가 98년 5월에 드디어 이제 북한에 있는 가족들을 탈출시키는데 성공합니다.
then|in 1998|in May|finally|now|to North Korea|that are|family members|in escaping|succeeds
Then, in May 1998, I finally succeeded in escaping my family in North Korea.
( 예. )
yes
( Yes. )
지금도 사실은 돈만 있으면 탈북은 얼마든지 할 수 있거든요.
even now|in fact|only money|if you have|defection|at any time|||you see
In fact, even now, if you have money, you can escape from North Korea as much as you want.
( 예. )
yes
( Yes. )
당시에는 더더욱 그랬고요.
at that time|even more|was the case
At that time, it was even more so.
어...뭐, 어머니와 여동생, 남동생 이제 가족 세 명이 이제 쭉 홍콩을 통해서 들어오는데 이것도 극적인게 홍콩 반환되기 직전이었어요.
uh|what|with my mother|younger sister|younger brother|now|family|three||now|continuously|through Hong Kong|through|coming in|this too|dramatic|Hong Kong|returning|was just before
Um... well, my mother, younger sister, and younger brother, now three family members, came through Hong Kong, and this was dramatic because it was just before the handover of Hong Kong.
( 아. )
ah
( Ah. )
홍콩 반환이 98년 7월 1일이었는데 ( 네. )
Hong Kong|return|1998|July|was on 1st|
The handover of Hong Kong was on July 1, 1998 ( Yes. )
그 직전에 그러니까 홍콩을 통한 탈북 루트라는게 막히기 직전이 이렇게 들어옵니다.
that|just before|so|Hong Kong|through|defection||being blocked|just before|like this|comes in
Right before that, in other words, the escape route through Hong Kong was about to be blocked.
운도 좋았고요.
luck|was good
I was lucky too.
(어, 예, 예. )
uh|yes|yes
(Uh, yes, yes.)
가족들이 이제 김포공항을 통해서 들어옵니다.
the family|now|Gimpo Airport|through|is coming in
The family is now coming in through Gimpo Airport.
( 예. )
yes
( e.g. )
들어온 날.
coming in|day
The day it came in.
김포공항에서 홍진희 씨 말에 의하면 코너를 이렇게 돌자마자 ( 네. )
at Gimpo Airport|Hong Jin-hee|Mr/Ms|in the words|according to|corner|like this|as soon as I turn|yes
According to Hong Jin-hee at Gimpo Airport, as soon as we turned the corner ( yes. )
데리고 들어와도 좋다고 했던 그 안기부 조사관이 홍진희 씨를 마구잡이로 구타를 하더래요.
bringing|in|okay|was|that|National Security Agency|investigator|Hong Jin-hee|Ms|indiscriminately|beating|was
the investigator from the National Security Agency, who said it was okay to bring her in, reportedly beat Hong Jin-hee indiscriminately.
( 왜요? )
why
( Why? )
그러면서 하는 얘기가 야 대한민국이 너 하나 먹여살리기도 힘들어 죽겠는데.
while|doing|conversation|hey|South Korea|you|one|to support|difficult|is dying
And then they say, 'Hey, South Korea is struggling to even support you.'
( 예. )
yes
( Yes. )
이 때가 또 IMF 직후잖아요.
this|time|again|IMF|right after
This is right after the IMF crisis.
( 아, 예 그렇죠. )
ah|yes|that's right
( Ah, yes, that's right. )
국가 살림도 어려운데 가족까지 불러들여가지고 나도 귀찮게 하고 국가를 고생시키냐고.
country|living|is difficult|even family|bringing in|I also|bothersome|and|country|making suffer
It's hard enough to manage the country's finances, and now you're bringing in your family and making it a hassle for me and causing trouble for the country.
김종배: 아니, 자기가 데려와도 된다고 했잖아요.
Kim Jong-bae|no|he/she|bring|is allowed|said
Kim Jong-bae: No, you said it was okay to bring them.
오창익: 그러니까요.
Oh Chang-ik|that's right
Oh Chang-ik: Exactly.
유우성 씨의 경우에도 그랬어요.
Yoo Seong|Mr|in the case of|was the same
In the case of Yoo Seong, it was the same.
( 똑같아요. )
is the same
( It's the same. )
유우성이 유가려를 데려와도 되냐고 계속 물어봤는데 아, 데려오라고.
Yu-seong|Yu-ga-ryeo|bring|is it okay|continuously|asked|ah|bring her
Yoo Seong kept asking if he could bring Yu Ga Ryeo, and I said, 'Oh, bring her.'
( 그러니까요. )
that's right
( Exactly. )
데려와도 된다고 그래서 데려오니까 간첩을 만드는 거로 쓴거 아니에요.
bringing|is okay|so|I bring|a spy|making|as|used|not
They said it was okay to bring them, so I brought them, and isn't that just making spies?
( 맞아요, 맞아요.
that's right|correct
( That's right, that's right.
예. )
yes
Yes. )
자, 이쯤되서 인간쓰레기라는 욕을 듣고 그것에 대해서 정말 인간쓰레기를 피하려고 불철주야 일해가지고 이제 탈북자금을 만들어서 어머니와 동생들을 데려왔는데.
now|at this point|being called a human trash|insult|hearing|about that|regarding|truly|human trash|to avoid|day and night|working|now|defection funds|by making|with my mother|my siblings|I brought over
Now, having heard the insult of being called human trash, I worked tirelessly to avoid being human trash and created funds for defectors to bring my mother and siblings.
( 예. )
yes
( e.g. )
다시 야단을 맞고 구타를 당하잖아요.
again|scolding|being scolded|beating|receiving
You get scolded and beaten again.
( 예. )
yes
( e.g. )
이런 상황에서도 사람이 앙심이란게 안 생기면 그거 사람도 아닙니다.
this|in situation|person|resentment|not|arises|that|person|is not
If a person doesn't hold a grudge in such situations, then that person isn't really human.
감정이 생기는 거죠.
emotion|arises|is
Emotions arise.
당연히.
of course
Of course.
( 그럼요. )
of course
( Of course. )
하... 근데 탈북자들은 일상적으로 국정원, 안기부와 경찰의 감시를 받아요.
ha|but|defectors|routinely|National Intelligence Service|and the National Security Agency|police|surveillance|receive
Ha... But defectors are under constant surveillance by the National Intelligence Service, the National Security Agency, and the police.
김종배: 그러니까 예를 들어서 뭐 합동 신문 센터에서 아, 이 사람은 간첩이 아니다라는 판정이 났어도.
Kim Jong-bae|so|for example|by|what|joint|newspaper|at the center|ah|this|person|spy|is not|judgment|even if
Kim Jong-bae: So for example, even if the joint press center has determined that this person is not a spy.
(네.)
(Yes.)
그 뒤에도 계속?
that|after|continue
Does it continue after that?
오창익: 그럼요.
Oh Chang-ik|of course
Oh Chang-ik: Of course.
늘.
Always.
옛날에 들어온 탈북자들도 다 그, 경찰의 감시를 받습니다.
in the past|who came|defectors|all|that|police|surveillance|receive
North Korean defectors who came in the past are also under the surveillance of the police.
( 예. )
yes
( For example. )
뭐, 이를테면 이런 식이에요.
what|for example|this|way
Well, it's like this.
그것도 군기잡기 식으로 아주 유치한데.
that too|military discipline|in a manner|very|childish
That's also very childish in a disciplinary way.
어떤 홍진희 씨 말고 다른 동료 탈북자 증언을 들어보면 어, 자기가 전화를 했는데 안 받았데요.
which|Hong Jin-hee|Mr/Ms|other|other|colleague|defector|testimony|if you listen to|uh|he/she|phone call|made|not|received
If you listen to testimonies from other defector colleagues besides Hong Jin-hee, they say that they called but didn't get an answer.
( 예. )
yes
( Yes. )
빨리 안 받았다.
quickly|not|received
They didn't pick up quickly.
그래서 경찰서로 들어오라고 그러고.
so|to the police station|to come in|and then
So they told me to come into the police station.
( 예. )
yes
( Yes. )
그래서 뭐 무릎을 꿇려놓고 왜 전화를 빨리 안 받았는지에 대한 진술서를 장황하게 쓰라고 그러고.
so|what|knee|kneeling|why|phone|quickly|not|receiving|regarding|statement|in a lengthy manner|to write|and then
So they made me kneel down and write a lengthy statement about why I didn't answer the phone quickly.
( 예 .
yes
( Yes.
)뭐 이런 일들.
what|this kind of|events
) What kind of things are these.
군기 잡기를 한 번씩 하는 겁니다.
military discipline|to catch|one|time|doing|is
It's about doing military discipline once in a while.
( 예. )
yes
( For example. )
꼼짝 못하는 거예요.
not moving|unable to|is
You can't move.
탈북자는 뭐 없잖아요.
the defector|what|doesn't exist
There are no defectors.
조직도 없고 주변에 뭐 누가 도와줄 사람도 없고.
organization|doesn't exist|around|anything|someone|help|person|doesn't exist
There are no organizations, and there is no one around to help.
( 그렇죠. )
that's right
( That's right. )
자, 홍진희 씨가 이제 대성공사에서 나와서 가족들을 데려왔다는 이유 때문에 또 구타를 당한 다음에 주변을 살펴본거예요.
now|Hong Jin-hee|Ms|now|from Daeseong Company|coming out|family|that brought|reason|because of|again|beating|was|after|surroundings|was looking around
So, Hong Jin-hee came out of Daesung Construction and after being beaten because she brought her family, she looked around.
김종배: 아, 잠깐만요.
Kim Jong-bae|ah|wait a moment
Kim Jong-bae: Ah, wait a minute.
그런데 공항에서 코너를 돌자마자 구타를 당했다고 했잖아요.
but|at the airport|corner|as soon as|beating|was|you said
But you said you were beaten as soon as you turned the corner at the airport.
( 네. )
yes
( Yes. )
그때 어머니나 동생들이 보고 있는 상태에서 ( 안 보는 상태에서.
at that time|my mother|my younger siblings|watching|are|in the state of|not|watching|in the state of
At that time, it was in a situation where my mother and siblings were watching (not watching).
그 놈만 데리고 가서. )
that|guy|with|taking
Just take that guy.
안 보는 상태에서.
not|seeing|in the state of
In a state of not looking.
아, 예.
ah|yes
Ah, yes.
오창익: 그건 좀 나은가요?
Oh Chang-ik|that|a bit|is better
Oh Chang-ik: Is that a bit better?
( 그래도 뭐... ) 근데 구타 당한건 알죠.
still|what|but|beating|was beaten|you know
( Well... ) But you know I was beaten.
가족들이.
the family
My family.
( 예. )
yes
( Yes. )
그러니까 동료 탈북자들을 만나면서 동료 탈북자들도 너나없이 비슷한 대접을 받았다는 걸 알게 된 거예요.
so|fellow|defectors|while meeting|fellow|defectors also|without exception|similar|treatment|received|fact|became aware|was|it
So, while meeting fellow defectors, I realized that my fellow defectors also received similar treatment.
( 예예 ) 대성공사에서.
yes yes|at Daesung Construction
( Yes, yes ) at Daesung Construction.
( 예, 예, 예. )
( Yes, yes, yes. )
정착 교육 하나도 없고.
settlement|education|at all|there is none
There is no settlement training at all.
( 예. )
yes
( Yes. )
위장 귀순 여부.
disguise|defection|whether
Whether it is a camouflage defection.
곧 간첩인지를 가려낸다고 했지만 결국은 사실 일상적인 일방적인 폭력뿐이었고.
soon|whether he is a spy|will be determined|but|ultimately|in fact|everyday|one-sided|was only violence
They said they would soon determine if someone is a spy, but in the end, it was just ordinary one-sided violence.
( 예. )
yes
( e.g. )
그러니까 대성공사는 대한민국으로 들어오기 위한, 합동 심문 센터는 대한민국으로 들어오기 위한 첫 관문이었지만.
so|Daeseong Corporation|to South Korea|entering|for|joint|interrogation|center||||first|gateway was
So, the Great Success Corporation was the first gateway to enter South Korea, and the joint interrogation center was the first gateway to enter South Korea.
( 예. )
yes
( For example. )
탈북자들에게는 정말 기억하기 싫은 치욕의 장소고 ( 그렇죠.
to the defectors|really|remembering|unpleasant|of shame|place|right
For North Korean defectors, it is truly a place of shame they want to forget ( right.
예예. )
yes yes
Yes, yes. )
지옥같은 곳이었죠.
hellish|was place
It was a hellish place.
그래서 탈북자들이 모이기 시작합니다.
so|North Korean defectors|gathering|start
So, North Korean defectors begin to gather.
( 아하, 예. )
aha|yes
( Ah, yes. )
이건 최초로 탈북자들의 자주적인, 주체적인 조직이 만들어지는 거예요.
this|for the first time|of defectors|autonomous|self-reliant|organization|being created|is
This is the first time an independent, self-directed organization of North Korean defectors is being formed.
( 음… 누가 시켜서가 아니라? )
hmm|someone|making|not
( Hmm... not because someone told them to? )
예.
Yes.
여때까지는 다 국정원 뭐, 경찰청 숭의동지회니 뭐 이런 것들이 저, 탈북자들의 조직들이 있었는데 ( 예. )
until now|all|National Intelligence Service|what|National Police Agency|Sungui Comrades Association|what|these|things|those|of defectors|organizations|existed|
Until now, there have been organizations like the National Intelligence Service and the Police Agency's Sungui-dong Association, which were organizations of North Korean defectors.
소위 관변단체들이었어요.
so-called|were government-affiliated organizations
They were so-called government-affiliated organizations.
( 음) 근데 관변단체가 아닌 순수 민간단체가 처음 생깁니다.
(um)|but|government-affiliated organization|not|pure|private organization|first|is established
(Um) But now, a purely private organization that is not government-affiliated is being established for the first time.
( 예. )
yes
( e.g. )
그 이름이 '자유를 찾아온 북한인 협회'예요.
that|name|'freedom|that came to|North Korean|
The name is 'Association of North Koreans Seeking Freedom'.
( 아, 예. )
ah|yes
( Ah, yes. )
자유 북한인 협회라고 ( 예. )
free|North Korean|association|
It's called the Association of Free North Koreans ( yes. )
1998년 12월에 생깁니다.
1998|in December|is born
It was created in December 1998.
( 네. )
( Yes. )
아...의미가 있죠.
ah|meaning|exists
Ah... it has meaning.
( 그러네요. )
that's right
( That's right. )
그런데 생기자마자 이 사람들은 홍진희 씨도 여기 가담해가지고 홍보부장이라는 직함으로 일하게 되는데 ( 예. )
but|as soon as it was created|this|people|Hong Jin-hee|Ms|here|joining|as the head of public relations|title|working|becomes|for example
However, as soon as it was created, these people, including Hong Jin-hee, got involved and started working under the title of head of publicity.
국가정보원의 조직 와해 공작, 협박에 시달립니다.
National Intelligence Service|organization|dismantling|operation|threats|suffer
They suffer from the National Intelligence Service's organizational disruption operations and threats.
( 어...예. )
uh|yes
( Uh... yes. )
뭐, 대표를 맡은 사람도 며칠만에 사표 내고 그만두고요.
what|representative|in charge of|person|after a few days|resignation|submitting|quitting
Well, the person who took on the representative role also resigned and left after just a few days.
( 네. )
yes
( Yes. )
그러니까 이들이 조직을 만들어서 그렇게 가면 우리가 니들을 어떻게 대할지 아냐.
so|these people|organization|by creating|like that|if they go|we|you|how|will treat|don't you
So if they form an organization and go like that, you know how we will treat you.
뭐 이런 협박들이 있는거죠.
what|this|threats|are there
These are the kinds of threats.
( 네. )
yes
( Yes. )
어...그런데 이 자유 북한인 협회를 만든 사람들은 만약 국정원이 원하는대로 조직을 그만두게 되면 여태까지 대성공사, 합동 심문 센터에서 받았던 그런 가혹한 일들이 중단되지 않을 거다.
uh|but|this|free|North Korean|association|created|people|if|National Intelligence Service|as desired|organization|disband|if|until now|Daesung Construction|joint|interrogation|at the center|had received|such|harsh|matters|not stopped|not|will be
Um... but the people who created the Free North Korea Coalition will not stop the harsh treatment they have received at the Daeseong Corporation and the Joint Interrogation Center if they disband the organization as the National Intelligence Service wants.
( 아, 그렇죠.
ah|that's right
( Ah, that's right.
그렇죠. )
that's right
That's right. )
자기들도 문제지만.
they themselves|are a problem
They have their own problems too.
이후에 들어올 자기 가족같은 정말, 동포들도 문제다.
after|coming in|one's own|like family|really|fellow countrymen|are a problem
Afterwards, there are really issues with people who are like family, fellow countrymen.
해서 멈추지 않습니다.
so|does not stop|does not
So it doesn't stop.
천, 천만다행이었어요.
thousand|was very fortunate
It was a great relief.
( 예. )
yes
( Yes. )
언론에 보도되진 않지만 성명도 이제 발표하고 그럽니다.
the media|reported|not|statement|now|announcing|does
Although it hasn't been reported in the media, a statement is now being issued.
( 예. )
yes
( For example. )
성명에서 이 자유 북한인 협회가 요구했던 것이 몇 가지 있는데요.
in the statement|this|free|North Korean|association|demanded|things|||there are
There are several demands made by the Free North Korea Coalition in the statement.
인권유린행위를 중지해라.
human rights violations|stop
Stop the human rights violations.
그리고 재발 방지해라.
and|recurrence|prevent
And prevent recurrence.
( 예. )
yes
( e.g. )
그 다음에 인간을 정보가치라는 상품으로만 대하지 마라.
that|next|human|as information value|only as a commodity|treat|do not
Then do not treat humans merely as products of informational value.
( 예. )
yes
( e.g. )
인간적 차별을 중지하라는 거죠.
human|discrimination|to stop|is
It means to stop human discrimination.
( 예. )
yes
( Yes. )
그 다음에 기초적인 생계를 위해서 제도를 정책적으로 보장해라.
that|next|basic|livelihood|for|system|policy-wise|ensure
Then, ensure that basic livelihoods are guaranteed through policies.
( 네. )
( Yes. )
그 다음에 지금 자유 북한인 협회 만들었는데 와해 책동을 하니까 ( 네. )
that|next|now|free|North Korean|association|was created|disruption|activities|because|
Then, we have now established the Free North Korean Association, but there are attempts to disrupt it.
이 조직에 대한 국정원의 와해 책동을 중지해라.
this|organization|regarding|National Intelligence Service|disruption|activities|stop
Stop the National Intelligence Service's attempts to disrupt this organization.
( 네. )
( Yes. )
네.
yes
Yes.
이런 정도의 이제 요구를 내세우기도 합니다.
this|level of|now|demand|sometimes put forward|does
They also make demands of this level.
김종배: 잠깐만요.
Kim Jong-bae|just a moment
Kim Jong-bae: Wait a minute.
이 성명이 근데 언론에 보도가 안됐다고요?
this|statement|but|to the media|report|did not happen
So this statement hasn't been reported in the media?
(안 됐죠.)
not|was allowed
(It hasn't.)
왜요?
why
Why?
오창익: 아니, 어, 그러니까 두 가진데요.
Oh Chang-ik|no|uh|so|two|have
Oh Chang-ik: No, um, so there are two.
하나는 탈북자들이 어떻게 해야 언론에 보도시키는지를 몰랐고요.
one|the defectors|how|should|to the media|be reported|did not know
One is that the North Korean defectors didn't know how to get reported in the media.
이 분들이.
this|people
These people.
( 예, 예, 예. )
( Yes, yes, yes. )
두 번째는 이제 국정원에서 막기도 했고.
second|second|now|from the National Intelligence Service|blocking|was
The second one has now been blocked by the National Intelligence Service.
두 가지가 이제 같이 진행이 되었는데요.
two|things|now|together|proceeding|has been
The two things have now progressed together.
( 어...그래요. )
uh|is that so
( Uh... right. )
국정원에서 막 적극적으로 막는다 하더라도 이, 대한민국 현실에 대해서 잘 모르는 분들이고 언론에 대해서 잘 모르니까 ( 예. )
the National Intelligence Service|actively|actively|prevents|even if|this|Republic of Korea|reality|about|well|not knowing|people|about the media|about|well|not knowing|
Even if the National Intelligence Service actively intervenes, these are people who do not know well about the reality of South Korea and do not understand the media (for example).
보도자료를 쓴다든지 이런걸 잘 모르신 거예요.
press release|writing|this|well|not knowing|is
They do not know how to write press releases or anything like that.
( 응, 예. )
yes|yes
(Yes, right.)
어떻게 보내야될지.
how|I should send
They don't know how to send it.
김종배: 언론이 고의적으로 보도 누락한 건 아니고요?
Kim Jong-bae|the media|intentionally|report|omitted|thing|is not
Kim Jong-bae: The media didn't intentionally omit the report, did they?
오창익: 아 그렇죠.
Oh Chang-ik|ah|that's right
Oh Chang-ik: Oh, that's right.
그때 이미 98년이어도 한겨레도 있고.
at that time|already|even in 1998|HanKyeore|
Even back then in '98, there was the Hankyoreh.
( 네. )
yes
( Yes. )
말지도 있고.
horse|exists
There are also words.
( 네. )
yes
( Yes. )
그래서 이, 시사통은 없었지만.
so|this|current affairs expert|was not
So, there was no current affairs expert.
( 예. )
yes
( Yes. )
그래도 숨통같은 역할을 해준 언론매체가 이, 존재할 때 였거든요.
still|like a lifeline|role|provided|media outlet|this|existing|time|was
Still, it was when there were media outlets that played a role like a lifeline.
( 아, 언론도 몰랐던 거군요? )
ah|the media|did not know|was it
( Ah, so the media didn't know either? )
그렇죠.
that's right
That's right.
( 예, 예, 예. )
( Yes, yes, yes. )
그...그 분들이 저한테 찾아왔었어요.
that|that|people|to me|came
They... they came to see me.
98년에.
in 1998
In 1998.
( 아...예, 예, 예. )
ah|yes|yes|yes
( Ah... yes, yes, yes. )
12월.
December
December.
에... 아이고 뭐 얘기 들어보니까 거짓말같더라고요.
uh|oh my|what|story|I heard|it seemed like a lie
Uh... Oh my, from what I've heard, it sounds like a lie.
( 네. )
yes
( Yes. )
그런데 저희가 이제 인권 단체 활동을 하면서 이런 사연을 가진 분들이 많이 오는데 저희 나름대로도 검증을 합니다.
but|we|now|human rights|organization|activities|while|such|stories|having|people|many|come|our|in our own way|verification|we do
However, as we engage in human rights activities, many people with such stories come to us, and we do our own verification.
( 네. )
( Yes. )
이를테면 따로 따로 불러서 진술을 들어본다든지.
for example|separately|separately|calling|statement|listening to
For example, calling them separately to hear their statements.
( 예. )
yes
( e.g. )
진술을 또 반복해서 들어본다든지 하면 ( 예. )
the statement|again|repeatedly|if I hear|if|
Repeating the statements to hear them again ( e.g. )
뭐, 법정에서도 사실 그런식으로 가리는 건데요.
what|in court|actually|in that way|is filtered|is
Well, that's actually how it's done in court.
아, 뭐랄까 진술의 일관성이라든지 ( 그렇죠. )
ah|how should I put it|of the statement|consistency|right
Ah, how should I put it, the consistency of the statement, right?
이런걸 통해서 실체적 진실에 접근하게 되요.
this|through|substantive|to the truth|access|becomes
Through this, we can approach the substantive truth.
( 그렇죠. )
that's right
( That's right. )
거짓말 하는게 한계가 있어요.
lying|is|limit|there
There are limits to lying.
( 그렇죠. )
that's right
( That's right. )
아침에 물어봤다 저녁에 물어보면 거짓말이 좀 들통나기도 하고 이렇습니다.
in the morning|I asked|in the evening|if I ask|the lie|a bit|getting exposed|and|this is how it is
If you ask in the morning and ask again in the evening, sometimes the lies get exposed.
( 그렇죠.
that's right
( That's right.
예. )
yes
Yes. )
이분들 진술이 되게 일관되고 믿음직했어요.
these people|statements|very|consistent|were trustworthy
Their statements were very consistent and trustworthy.
그래서 다른 몇 개의 인권 단체들에게 제안을 해가지고 기자회견을 열었습니다.
so|other|few|of|human rights|to organizations|proposal|having|press conference|held
So I made suggestions to a few other human rights organizations and held a press conference.
( 예. )
yes
( Yes. )
이 문제를 거론했죠.
this|problem|was mentioned
I brought up this issue.
( 네. )
yes
( Yes. )
99년 1월 15일의 일입니다.
1999|January|15th|date
It was on January 15, 1999.
( 네. )
yes
( Yes. )
저는 그때 이제 명동에서 일했는데 명동 가톨릭 회관에서 기자회견을 열었고 ( 예. )
I|at that time|now|in Myeongdong|was working|Myeongdong|Catholic|at the hall|press conference|held|for example
At that time, I was working in Myeongdong, and we held a press conference at the Myeongdong Catholic Center ( Yes. )
어유, 뭐 난리도 아니었어요.
oh|what|commotion|was not
Oh my, it was quite a mess.
국정원 직원들이 명동 도처에 쫙 깔리고 뭐, 이곳저곳에서 탈북자들 못가게 하고 몸싸움하고 저는 나가서 뭐, 국정원 직원들 쫓아내고 ( 네. )
National Intelligence Service|employees|Myeongdong|everywhere|spread out|are laid out|well|here and there|defectors|unable to|and|fighting|I|going out|well|National Intelligence Service|employees|driving away|
The National Intelligence Service employees were spread all over Myeongdong, blocking defectors from going here and there, and there were scuffles, and I went out and chased away the NIS employees (yes).
이러고 기자회견 겨우 열었습니다.
like this|press conference|barely|was held
We barely managed to hold a press conference.
( 네. )
(Yes.)
지금까지 말씀드렸던 그런 내용들을 그, 시민들에게 알린거예요.
until now|I have told you|such|contents|those|to the citizens|I informed
What I have mentioned so far has been communicated to the citizens.
충격적이었죠.
was shocking
It was shocking.
김종배: 이게 그러니까 최초로 공개가 된 사례잖아요.
Kim Jong-bae|this|therefore|for the first time|being disclosed|that has been|case
Kim Jong-bae: This is the first case that has been made public.
오창익: 네.
Oh Chang-ik|yes
Oh Chang-ik: Yes.
최초였죠.
was the first
It was the first.
그래서 1월 15일에 기자회견했는데 15일 말고 16일자 신문에 보면 한겨레부터 조선일보까지 다 사설을 쓸 정도로 중요한 ( 아...) 네.
so|January|on 15th|I held a press conference|15th|instead of|dated 16th|in the newspaper|if you look|from Hankyoreh|to Chosun Ilbo|all|editorials|writing||important|ah|yes
So we held a press conference on January 15th, but if you look at the newspapers from the 16th, from Hankyoreh to Chosun Ilbo, they all wrote editorials, indicating how important it was (ah...) yes.
뉴스였습니다.
was news
It was news.
김종배: 어, 조선도 사설을 썼어요?
Kim Jong-bae|oh|Joseon|editorial|wrote
Kim Jong-bae: Oh, did Chosun write an editorial too?
오창익: 저희가 한 일 중에서 한겨레부터 조선까지, 조선부터 한겨레까지가 아니라.
Oh Chang-ik|we||work|among|from Hankyoreh|to Joseon|from Joseon|to Hankyoreh|not
Oh Chang-ik: Among the things we did, it's from Hankyoreh to Chosun, not from Chosun to Hankyoreh.
( 예. )
yes
( Yes. )
한겨레부터 조선까지 사설을 다 쓴 게 몇개 있습니다.
from Hankyoreh|to Chosun|editorials|all|written|thing|how many|there are
There are several editorials written from Hankyoreh to Chosun.
뭐, 예.
what|yes
Well, yes.
( 예. )
yes
( e.g. )
많진 않습니다.
not many|are
There aren't many.
( 하하하.
haha
( Hahaha.
)그러니까 그 사람들이 봐도 되게 중요한 문제라고 판단한거죠.
so|that|people|even if|very|important|issue|judged
) So they judged that it was a very important issue.
김종배: 어…이건 인권유린이다.
Kim Jong-bae|||is a violation of human rights
Kim Jong-bae: Uh... this is a violation of human rights.
이런 논조로 쓴거죠?
this|tone|was written
Is this written in that tone?
오창익: 인권문제라고 해서 한겨레가...아니 저, 저, 조선일보가 다 사설을 쓰진 않지만 ( 예. )
Oh Chang-ik|regarding human rights issue|so|Hankyoreh|no|that||Chosun Ilbo|all|editorials|write|not|
Oh Chang-ik: Since it's a human rights issue, Hankyoreh... No, I mean, Chosun Ilbo doesn't write editorials on everything, but (for example)
자기들이 그래도 여태까지 해온 그 이야기의 뭐, 뭐랄까 나름의 일관성 ( 예. )
they|still|until now|have been doing|that|story|what|how should I put it|somewhat|consistency|
They still have their own consistency in the stories they've been telling so far (for example)
뭐 이런거죠.
what|is this
What is this about?
인권문제라고 해서 쓴겁니다.
the human rights issue|because|I wrote
I wrote this because it's a human rights issue.
( 음... ) 인권침해.
hmm|human rights violation
( Um... ) Human rights violation.
이런 얘기가 있었는데 ( 예. )
this|story|was|
There was talk about this ( Yes. )
사실을 밝히고 이런 일이 있으면 안 된다라는 거예요.
the fact|revealing|such|event|happens|not|should|is
It reveals the facts and says that such things should not happen.
( 예, 예. )
yes|yes
( Yes, yes. )
그, 국정원의 반응도 뭐, 실시간으로 나왔습니다.
that|National Intelligence Service|reaction|well|in real time|came out
The National Intelligence Service's response also came out in real time.
( 네. )
yes
( Yes. )
이땐 이미 김대중 정부가 출범한 다음이에요.
at this time|already|Kim Dae-jung|government|launched|after
By this time, the Kim Dae-jung government had already been launched.
( 99년이니까 그렇죠.
it's 1999|right
( Since it's 1999, that's right.
예, 예. )
yes|
Yes, yes. )
과거 정부에서 일어난 일이다.
past|in the government|occurred|is
It happened during the previous government.
( 예. )
yes
( e.g. )
그렇지만 탈북자들에 대한 가혹 행위는 있을 수 없는 일이다.
but|to defectors|regarding|harsh|acts|possible|possibility|not|is
However, acts of cruelty against North Korean defectors cannot be tolerated.
( 예. )
yes
( e.g. )
이거는 최근에 정착금 문제... 이런거로 불만을 가진 탈북자들이 사실을 과장한 것으로 판단된다.
this|recently|settlement money|issue|like this|dissatisfaction|having|defectors|fact|exaggerated|as|judged
This is a recent issue regarding settlement funds... it seems that defectors who are dissatisfied have exaggerated the facts.
( 네. )
yes
( Yes. )
이렇게 합니다.
like this|I do
This is how it is done.
( 예. )
yes
( Yes. )
하지만 파장, 파장은 컸고요.
but|wave|wave (subject)|was large
However, the wavelength, the wavelength was large.
( 예. )
yes
( e.g. )
또 정부의 화답도 컸습니다.
also|of the government|response|was large
The government's response was also significant.
( 음... ) 이건 다 나중에 일어난 일이지만.
( hmm )|this|all|later|happening|event
( um... ) This is all something that happened later.
어...조사과정에서 구타 등 가혹 행위가 거의 없어졌어요.
uh|during the investigation|beating|etc|harsh|acts|almost|disappeared
Uh... during the investigation process, acts of violence such as beatings have almost disappeared.
( 어...예. )
uh|yes
( Uh... yes. )
그래서 황장엽 씨나 황장엽 씨랑 같이 들어온 김덕홍 씨나 이런 사람들이 자유 북한인 협회를 평가하는게.
so|Hwang Jang-yop|Mr|Hwang Jang-yop|with Mr|together|who came in|Kim Deok-hong|Mr|such|people|free|North Korean|association|evaluating
So, people like Hwang Jang-yop or Kim Deok-hong, who came in with Hwang Jang-yop, evaluate the Free North Korean Association.
( 예. )
yes
( Yes. )
탈북자들이 두들겨 맞지 않도록 해줬다.
the defectors|beaten|hit|so that|was protected
They made sure that defectors were not beaten.
저분들이.
those people
Those people.
( 아, 예, 예. )
ah|yes|yes
( Ah, yes, yes. )
용사들이다.
are heroes
They are heroes.
뭐 이런 표현도 하고 그렇습니다.
what|this|expression|and|is like
They also use expressions like this.
( 예. )
yes
( e.g. )
욕설도 거의 사라졌어요.
the swearing|almost|has disappeared
Profanity has almost disappeared.
( 예. )
yes
( e.g. )
나중에 다시 부활합니다만.
later|again|I will be resurrected
It will be resurrected later.
( 예. )
yes
( e.g. )
하여튼 김대중 정부 때 거의 사라졌어요.)
anyway|Kim Dae-jung|government|during|almost|disappeared
Anyway, it almost disappeared during the Kim Dae-jung administration.)
김종배: 나중에 부활할 때가 언제 부활한 거예요?
Kim Jong-bae|later|resurrected|time|when|resurrected|is
Kim Jong-bae: When did it come back later?
(MB, 박근혜...뭐 아시면서 그러세요.)
MB|Park Geun-hye|what|knowing|are you saying
(MB, Park Geun-hye... you know what I mean.)
이명박 대... (간첩도 만들어내고 그러잖아요.)
Lee Myung-bak|president|spies|creating|isn't he
Lee Myung-bak... (They even create spies, you know.)
제가 그걸 여쭤보려고 했던게 유가려 씨가 언론에 인터뷰한거 보면 뭐, 폭언에 폭행에...뭐 이런게 있었다고 했거든요.
I|that|to ask|was|Yuga-ryeo|Ms|to the media|interview|if you see|well|verbal abuse|physical assault||such things|there was|said
What I wanted to ask about is that when Yoo Ga-rye interviewed the media, she mentioned things like verbal abuse and physical violence... that kind of stuff.
오창익: 그러니까요.
Oh Chang-ik|that's right
Oh Chang-ik: Exactly.
그러니까 부활하는 겁니다.
so|resurrecting|is
So it's coming back.
없어졌다가.
disappeared
Disappeared.
( 부활은 MB 정부 때? )
resurrection|Lee Myung-bak|government|during
( Was the resurrection during the MB administration? )
없어졌다가 부활하게 되고 ( 네. )
disappeared|resurrected|becomes|yes
It disappeared and then resurrected ( Yes. )
합동 신문 센터에서 조사받는 기간도 줄어들었다가 늘어나게 되고 이럽니다.
joint|newspaper|at the center|being investigated|period|decreased|increased|becomes|this is
The period of investigation at the Joint Press Center also decreased and then increased.
( 네. )
( Yes. )
또 주목할만한 것이 '하나원'이 생겨요.
also|noteworthy|thing||is created
Another noteworthy thing is that 'Hanawon' is being established.
탈북자 정착 교육기간이.
defector|settlement|education period
The settlement education period for North Korean defectors.
( 음, 네. )
um|yes
( Um, yes. )
그동안은 대성공사 합동 심문 센터에서 조사하고 뭐, 교육 조금 했어요.
during that time|Daeseong Corporation|joint|interrogation|at the center|investigating|well|education|a little|I did
In the meantime, I was investigated at the Daesung Corporation Joint Interrogation Center and did some training.
근데 교육 위주가 아니죠.
but|education|focused|is not
But it wasn't mainly focused on training.
지금 이제 조사하고 두들겨 패는게 위주였고 ( 음. )
now|now|investigating|beating|hitting|was focused on|um
Right now, the focus was on investigating and beating people up (um).
그러다가 하나원이 생기고
then|Hanawon|was created
Then, Hanawon was established.
김종배: 예.
Kim Jong-bae|yes
Kim Jong-bae: Yes.
여기서 한국 현실이 이렇고...예를 들어서, 예를 들어서 인제 뭐, 직능 이런거 파악해서 직업 교육 비슷한 것도 시켜주고 이러나요?
here|Korean|reality|is like this|for example|for example|||now|what|vocational skills|these things|by understanding|job|education|similar|things|provide|is it like this
Here, the reality in Korea is like this... For example, for example, do they provide something similar to vocational training by understanding job skills?
하나원에서?
at Hanawon
At Hanawon?
오창익: 그럼요.
Oh Chang-ik|of course
Oh Chang-ik: Of course.
자본주의 교육 같은 거 ( 네. )
capitalism|education|like|thing|yes
Things like capitalist education (Yes.)
하다못해 지하철 타는 법... ( 예. )
even|subway|riding|way|
At the very least, how to ride the subway... (Yes.)
뭐, 은행 가는 법... ( 네.)
what|bank|going|way|yes
Well, how to go to the bank... (Yes.)
뭐 이런 것들 알려줄게 되게 많습니다.
what|these|things|I will tell you|very|are many
There are a lot of things like this that I can teach you.
(예, 예, 예, 예. )
(Yes, yes, yes, yes.)
하나원에서 교육을 굉장히 많이 해요.
at Hanawon|education|very|a lot|is provided
They provide a lot of training at Hanawon.
( 예, 예. )
yes|yes
(Yes, yes.)
어...뭐, 국가 교육도 하고... ( 네. )
uh|what|national|education|doing|yes
Um... well, they also provide national education... (Yes.)
하다못해 애국가도 1절부터 4절까지 배워야될 거 아닙니까.
at least|the national anthem|from the first verse|to the fourth verse|should be learned|thing|isn't it
At the very least, we should learn the national anthem from the first verse to the fourth verse.
( 그렇죠. )
that's right
( That's right. )
그렇죠?
right
Isn't that right?
김종배: 대한민국 국민이 됐으니까.
Kim Jong-bae|Republic of Korea|citizen|has become
Kim Jong-bae: Since we have become citizens of the Republic of Korea.
오창익: 뭐, 태극기 그리는 것도 배우고 그러니까 우리는 이제 그런게 아무것도 아니라고 생각하는게 초등학교 1학년부터 천천히 스며들어서 한국사람이면 누구나 태정태세문단세를 다 외울 정도로 이제 수준이 오르게 되지만 ( 네. )
Oh Chang-ik|what|Taegeukgi|drawing|also|learning|so|we|now|that|nothing|is not|thinking|elementary school|from first grade|slowly|permeating|if you are Korean|anyone|Taejeongtaese Mun Danse|all|memorize||now|level|rise|but|yes
Oh Chang-ik: Well, learning to draw the Taegeukgi and such, we think that it's nothing special because it gradually seeps in from the first grade of elementary school, and by the time you're Korean, anyone can memorize Taejeongtaeseomundanse, so the level rises (Yes.)
탈북자들은 초등학교 1학년 과정부터 하나하나씩 이렇게 배워야될 필요가 있는거예요.
the North Korean defectors|elementary school|first grade|from the curriculum|one by one|like this|need to learn|necessity|is
Defectors from North Korea need to learn everything step by step starting from the first grade of elementary school.
( 아, 예, 예. )
ah|yes|yes
(Ah, yes, yes.)
그러니까 정착 교육 기관은 반드시 필요한거죠.
so|settlement|education|institution|absolutely|is necessary
So, settlement education institutions are absolutely necessary.
( 그렇죠, 그렇죠.
that's right|indeed
( That's right, that's right.
예. )
yes
Yes. )
그러니까 정착 교육 기관이 생기고 이제 이제 탈북자들에 대해서, 대하는 방식이 근본적으로 이제 전환되게 되는 겁니다.
so|settlement|education|institution|is established|now|now|||||||will be transformed|becoming|is
So, with the establishment of settlement education institutions, the way we treat North Korean defectors fundamentally changes.
( 오, 좋은 일이네요. )
oh|good|is happening
( Oh, that's a good thing. )
네.
yes
Yes.
그리고 정착금도 당장 세 배 가까이 올라가요.
and|settlement amount|immediately|three|times|close to|increases
And the settlement amount will also increase to nearly three times right away.
( 오, 예, 예. )
oh|yes|yes
( Oh, yes, yes. )
그리고 기초생활보장법상 수급권자가 될 수도 있게해주고.
and|under the Basic Livelihood Security Act|recipient of benefits|become|also|allow
And it allows you to become a recipient under the Basic Living Security Act.
( 예. )
yes
( e.g. )
또...취업을 막 촉진하면서 지금은 없어졌습니다만 기업이 취업을 시켜주면 탈북자를, 2년 동안은 정부가 월급을 대신 대주는 방식... ( 어... ) 이런 것도 하고요.
also|employment|just|promoting|now||company|employment|provides|defector|2 years|during|government|salary|instead|pays|method|uh|such|thing|doing
Also... while promoting employment, it has now disappeared, but when companies hire defectors, the government covers their salaries for two years... ( um... ) this is also being done.
( 네. )
( Yes. )
당시 IMF 시절이어서 다 어려웠는데 생계형 창업자, 창업대, 창업을 하면 신용보증기금에서 생계형 창업 자금 대출을 해줬어요.
at that time|IMF|period|all|was difficult|livelihood|entrepreneur|startup|startup|if|from the credit guarantee fund|livelihood|startup|funds|loan|was provided
At that time, during the IMF period, everyone was struggling, but for livelihood-type entrepreneurs, when they started a business, the Credit Guarantee Fund provided loans for livelihood-type startup funds.
( 아, 예... ) 이거를 탈북자들에게도 확산합니다.
ah|yes|this|to defectors|will spread
( Ah, yes... ) This will also be spread to defectors.
그래서 1억원까지.
so|up to 100 million won
So up to 100 million won.
99년에.
in 1999
In 1999.
( 아... ) 큰 돈이었습니다.
ah|big|was money
( Ah... ) It was a lot of money.
( 그럼요.
of course
( Of course.
예. )
yes
Yes. )
예, 그...담보없이.
yes|that|without collateral
Yes, um... without collateral.
아주 저리로 이자를 적게 내가지고 이제 창업자금 대출해줘요.
very|at a low rate|interest|little|paying|now|startup capital|they lend
They provide startup loans with very low interest rates.
( 예. )
yes
( e.g. )
그래서 탈북자들이 99년 말에 식당을 많이 엽니다.
so|North Korean defectors|1999|at the end|restaurants|many|open
So, North Korean defectors opened many restaurants at the end of 1999.
( 아... ) 제가 99년 말에 정말 식당 개업식 많이 돌아다녔어요.
ah|I|1999|at the end of|really|restaurant|opening ceremony|a lot|was going around
( Ah... ) I really went around a lot of restaurant openings at the end of 1999.
탈북자들 때문에.
defectors|because of
Because of the North Korean defectors.
( 하하하하 ) 홍진희 씨도 강남구 청담동에 라는 금강옥이라는 식당을 내고요.
haha|Hong Jin-hee|also|Gangnam District|in Cheongdam-dong|called|Geumgangok|restaurant|opened
( Hahaha ) Hong Jin-hee also opened a restaurant called Geumgangok in Cheongdam-dong, Gangnam-gu.
( 어, 예.)
yes|yes
( Oh, yes.)
그 다음, 자유 북한인 협회 회장하던 한창권 씨라는 분도 계신데 그 분도 뭐, 강동구 길동에 식당을 내고 그럽니다.
that|next|free|North Korean|association|was the president|Han Chang-gwon|person|also|is|that|person|well|Gangdong-gu|in Gil-dong|restaurant|opening|is
Next, there is a person named Han Chang-kwon who was the president of the Free North Korean Association, and he also opened a restaurant in Gil-dong, Gangdong-gu.
( 예...) 아... 나중엔 다 망했습니다.
yes|ah|later|all|failed
( Yes...) Ah... In the end, they all went bankrupt.
좀 문젠데 하여튼.
a bit|is a problem|anyway
It's a bit of a problem, but anyway.
( 예. )
yes
( Yes. )
외국에도 다녀올 수 있게 됐습니다.
to foreign countries|I can go|possibility|be able to|became
I was able to go abroad.
( 어, 예. )
yes|yes
( Uh, yes. )
여권도 안 내줬는데 여권도 내주게 되고 ( 예. )
the passport|not|was given|the passport|will be given|becomes|for example
They didn't even give me my passport, but eventually they did (e.g.)
하여튼 이런 일들이 다 한참 뒤에 벌어진 일이고요 ( 네. )
anyway|these|events|all|quite a while|later|occurred|event|yes
Anyway, these events all happened a long time later (yes.)
기자회견 직후에 벌어졌던건 국가정보원, 국정원의 비열한 복수극입니다.
press conference|immediately after|that occurred|National Intelligence Service|of the National Intelligence Service|despicable|act of revenge
What happened right after the press conference was a vile act of revenge by the National Intelligence Service.
( 아...) 악랄했어요.
ah|was cruel
(Ah...) It was cruel.
( 예. )
yes
( e.g. )
제가 악랄이란 단어를 쓰는데 정말 악랄했어요.
I|the word 'evil'|word|using|really|was evil
I used the word 'malicious' and I was really malicious.
( 예. )
yes
( e.g. )
안녕하세요.
hello
Hello.
청년 논객 노정태입니다.
young|debater|is No Jeong-tae
I am the young commentator Noh Jeong-tae.
강준만, 진중권, 유시민, 박노자, 우석훈, 김규항, 김어준, 홍세화, 고종석.
Kang Jun-man|Jin Joong-kwon|Yoo Si-min|Park No-ja|Woo Seok-hoon|Kim Gyu-hang|Kim Eo-jun|Hong Se-hwa|Ko Jong-seok
Kang Jun-man, Jin Joong-kwon, Yoo Si-min, Park No-ja, Woo Seok-hun, Kim Gyu-hang, Kim Eo-jun, Hong Se-hwa, Ko Jong-seok.
이 진보 논객들과 함께 살아온 우리의 한 시절.
this|progressive|with the debaters|together|have lived|our|one|time
Our time spent living with these progressive commentators.
우리가 가장 뜨겁고 치열했던 그 시절을 처음부터 끝까지 돌아보고자 책을 펴냈습니다.
we|most|hot|intense|that|time|from the beginning|to the end|in order to reflect|book|published
We published a book to look back on that time when we were the most passionate and intense, from beginning to end.
<논객시대> 인문 사회 담론의 전성기를 수놓은 진보 논객 총정리.
<Era of Debaters>|humanities|social|discourse|golden age|adorned|progressive|debater|comprehensive summary
A comprehensive overview of progressive commentators who adorned the golden age of humanities and social discourse.
반비에서 펴냈습니다.
by Banbi|published
Published by Banbi.
안녕하세요.
hello
Hello.
<폭력을 넘어서> 오창익입니다.
violence|beyond|is Oh Chang-ik
This is Oh Chang-ik from <Beyond Violence>.
우리시대의 예언자 강우일 주교의 <기억하라, 연대하라>를 보내드립니다.
of our era|prophet|Kang Woo-il|bishop's|<Remember|Unite>|(object marker)|I am sending
I am sending you Bishop Kang Woo-il's <Remember, Unite>.
국가는 신성한 존재일까요?
the nation|sacred|existence
Is the nation a sacred entity?
국가의 정책은 믿고 따르기만 하면 될까요?
the state|policy|trusting|just following|if|is it okay
Should we just trust and follow the policies of the state?
국가 폭력에 대한 시민들의 기억과 불의를 넘어서려는 뜻있는 사람들의 연대가 답을 줍니다.
state|to violence|regarding|of citizens|memory|injustice|trying to overcome|conscientious|of people|solidarity|answer|gives
The memories of citizens regarding state violence and the solidarity of those who seek to overcome injustice provide the answers.
강우일 주교의 <기억하라, 연대하라>를 보십시오.
Bishop Kang Woo-il|of the bishop|<Remember|||see
Please see Bishop Kang Woo-il's <Remember, Solidarity>.
<기억하라, 연대하라>와 함께 공권력의 의미, 사람다운 삶의 의미를 찾기 바랍니다.
remember|unite|||of public authority|meaning|human|life|meaning|find|I hope
Along with <Remember, Solidarity>, please seek the meaning of public authority and the meaning of a dignified life.
강우일 주교의 <기억하라, 연대하라>.
Bishop Kang Woo-il|of the bishop|<Remember|Stand in solidarity>
Bishop Kang Woo-il's <Remember, Solidarity>.
삼인출판사.
Samin Publishing
Samin Publishing.
오창익: 기자 회견이 끝난 다음에요.
Oh Chang-ik|reporter|the press conference|ended|after
Oh Chang-ik: After the press conference is over.
뭐, 이렇게 세상은 이 문제 때문에 정말 고민하게 되고 어, 이런 일이 있었어?
what|like this|the world|this|problem|because of|really|to worry|becomes|uh|this kind of|event|was
Well, the world is really troubled by this issue, and, did this really happen?
세상에.
in the world
Oh my.
( 네. )
yes
( Yes. )
어, 우리가 어떻게 그럴 수 있어.
oh|we|how|that|possibility|can
Uh, how can we do that?
대한민국이.
the Republic of Korea
South Korea.
뭐 이런 사회적 여론이 형성됐는데, 희한하게 자유 북한인 협회 사람들이 안 찾아오는 거예요.
what|this|social|opinion|was formed|strangely|free|North Korean|association|people|not|coming|
Well, such a social opinion has formed, but strangely, the Free North Korea Coalition people are not coming.
왜 그럴까?
why|is that so
Why is that?
근데 보통 인권 운동 하다보면 어떤 문제가 이렇게 터지면 또 잘 해결되는 방향이면 피해자나 당사자들이 안 오시는 경우도 있어요.
but|usually|human rights|movement|when|some|issue|like this|arises|again|well|resolved|direction|victims or|parties|not|coming|cases|there are
But usually, when human rights movements are happening, if a problem arises and it gets resolved well, there are cases where the victims or parties involved do not come.
( 아, 예. )
ah|yes
( Ah, yes. )
그래서 무소식이 희소식인 경우가 되게 많습니다.
so|no news|good news|case|very|many
So, there are many cases where no news is good news.
( 음, 예. )
um|yes
( Um, yes. )
그냥 대충 그러려니 했습니다.
just|roughly|let it be|I thought
I just thought, 'Oh well, whatever.'
( 예. )
yes
( Yes. )
두어 달쯤 지난 다음에 자유 북한인 협회 한창권 회장이 찾아왔어요.
two|months|past|after|free|North Korean|association|Hanchang-gwon|president|came to visit
About two months later, Chairman Hanchang Kwon of the Free North Korea Association came to visit.
( 예. )
yes
( Yes. )
어떻게 지냈냐고 그동안...물어봤더니 감옥에 갔다왔다는 거예요.
how|have you been|during that time|I asked|to prison|that I went and came back|is
When I asked how they had been doing all this time... they said they had been to prison.
구치소에.
in the detention center
To a detention center.
( 예? )
yes
( Huh? )
무슨 얘기야?
what|are you talking about
What are you talking about?
( 예. )
yes
( For example. )
그랬더니 회장, 부회장, 그 다음에 지금 말씀드리고 있는 이 주인공 홍진희 씨 ( 예, 예. )
then|chairman|vice chairman|this|next|now|I am telling you|is|this|main character|Hong Jin-hee|Mr/Ms||
Then the chairman, the vice chairman, and now the main character I'm talking about, Ms. Hong Jin-hee ( Yes, yes. )
홍보 부장이 전부 다 구속되어서 감옥에 갔다왔다는 거예요.
public relations|manager|all|all|was arrested|in prison|went to|
The head of public relations was all arrested and went to prison.
( 허허허...왜요? )
haha|why
( Hehehe... Why? )
어떻게 된 건가.
how|happened|is
What happened?
( 예. )
yes
( Yes. )
국정원의 보복이었습니다.
of the National Intelligence Service|was retaliation
It was a retaliation from the National Intelligence Service.
( 아... ) 자, 1차 표적은 홍진희 씨였어요.
ah|now|first|target|Hong Jin-hee|was
( Ah... ) So, the first target was Ms. Hong Jin-hee.
( 예. )
yes
( Yes. )
왜 홍진희 씨가 표적이 됐냐하면 그 문제의 1월 15일 기자회견에서 그 가족들 얘기를 다 한겁니다.
why|Hong Jin-hee|Ms|target|became|that|issue|January|15th|at the press conference|her|family|story|all|told
The reason why Hong Jin-hee became a target is that during the press conference on January 15, she talked about her family.
( 아... ) 방금 제가 말씀드렸던 거.
ah|just now|I|mentioned|thing
( Ah... ) What I just mentioned.
( 예, 예, 예... ) 인간쓰레기였고 그 쓰레기가 안 되기 위해서 어머니를 모셔왔는데 그날 두들겨 맞았다.
yes|||was human trash|that|trash|not|becoming|in order to|mother|I brought|that day|beaten|was
( Yes, yes, yes... ) She was human trash, and to avoid being that trash, she brought her mother, but that day she was beaten.
( 예. )
yes
( e.g. )
그러니까 언론이 굉장히 조명을 했어요.
so|the media|very|spotlight|shone
So the media really highlighted it.
이 양반에 대해서도.
this|gentleman|about
About this person as well.
( 예. )
yes
( e.g. )
한겨레 신문 따로 박스로 인터뷰 기사를 싣기도 하고 그래요.
HanGyeore|newspaper|separately|in a box|interview|article|publishing|and|sometimes
The Hankyoreh newspaper sometimes features interview articles in a separate box.
( 예, 예. )
yes|yes
( Yes, yes. )
그러니까 이제 홍진희가 1차 표적이었는데 어떤 식으로 보복을 하냐면 이래요.
so|now|Hong Jin-hee|first|was the target|what|way|revenge|is|like this
So, Hong Jin-hee was the primary target, and the way they retaliate is like this.
홍진희 씨가 사귀던 여성이 있었습니다.
Hong Jin-hee|Mr/Ms|was dating|woman|was
There was a woman that Hong Jin-hee was dating.
연상의 여인인데.
older|woman
She is an older woman.
( 예, 예. )
yes|yes
( Yes, yes. )
이 여성에게 홍진희 씨를 고소하라고 합니다.
this|woman|Hong Jin-hee|Ms|to sue|says
She is advised to sue Hong Jin-hee.
강간 혐의로.
rape|on charges of
For the charge of rape.
( 강간 혐의로? )
rape|on charges of
( For the charge of rape? )
네.
yes
Yes.
고소를 유도해요.
the lawsuit|induces
They are inducing a complaint.
( 예. )
yes
( Yes. )
그리고 3월 3일에 검찰이 이제 홍진희 씨를 강간 치상 뭐, 횡령 혐의로 구속한 거예요.
and|March|on 3rd|the prosecution|now|Hong Jin-hee|person|rape|injury|or|embezzlement|on charges of|arrested|was
And on March 3rd, the prosecution has now arrested Hong Jin-hee on charges of rape causing injury and embezzlement.
김종배: 이게 99년 1월에 기자회견했었고, (네.)
Kim Jong-bae|this|1999|in January|had a press conference|(yes)
Kim Jong-bae: This was announced at a press conference in January 1999, right?
99년 3월 3일에?
1999|March|on 3rd
On March 3rd, 1999?
(네.)
(Yes.)
예.
yes
Yes.
오창익: 어...뭐, 어떤 식으로 진행되었냐하면 이런겁니다.
Oh Chang-ik|||what|in the way|it was conducted|this is how it was
Oh Chang-ik: Uh... well, here's how it went.
홍진희 씨가 사귀던 여성이 있었어요.
Hong Jin-hee|Mr/Ms|was dating|woman|was
There was a woman that Hong Jin-hee was dating.
조씨라는 분인데.
Mr Cho|person
Her name is Jo.
( 예. )
yes
( e.g. )
1월 15일에 기자회견을 했는데 일주일 후인 1월 22일에 홍진희 씨를 강간 치상하고 횡령 혐의로 고소해요.
January|on 15th|press conference|was held|one week|later|January|on 22nd|Hong Jin-hee|Ms|rape|causing injury|embezzlement|on charges of|I file a complaint
On January 15, a press conference was held, and a week later, on January 22, Ms. Hong Jin-hee was accused of rape and embezzlement.
( 예. )
yes
( e.g. )
아...근데 고소하기 이틀 전에 자신을 통일부 사무관이라고 밝힌 사람이 전화를 했어요.
ah|but|lawsuit|two days|before|himself|Ministry of Unification|as a civil servant|revealed|person|phone call|made
Ah... but two days before the accusation, someone who identified themselves as a civil servant from the Ministry of Unification called.
( 예. )
yes
( e.g. )
어… 홍씨를 고소할 생각이 있냐.
uh|Mr Hong|to sue|thought|do you have
Um... are you thinking of suing Mr. Hong?
이런거를 물어봐요.
this kind of thing|asks
This is what I'm asking.
어떻게 알죠?
how|do you know
How do you know?
이 사람이.
this|person
This person.
1월 초에 홍진희 씨와 말다툼을 벌이다가 몇대 맞았대요.
January|at the beginning of|Hong Jin-hee|with|argument|while having|a few|was hit
In early January, they got into an argument with Hong Jin-hee and ended up getting hit a few times.
( 예. )
yes
( Yes. )
뭐, 때리면 안 돼죠.
what|if you hit|not|should be allowed
Well, you shouldn't hit.
( 예. )
yes
( e.g. )
억울해가지고 이제 평소 잘 아는 이북오도민 간부에게, 오도민회 간부에게 이런 얘기를 하소연을 했는데.
feeling wronged|now|usually|well|knowing|North Korean residents|to the official|North Korean residents' council|to the council official|this|story|complaining|I did
Feeling wronged, I complained to a well-known leader of the North Korean expatriates, a leader of the expatriate association.
( 예. )
yes
( e.g. )
그렇지만 이제 화도 풀렸고 ( 네. )
but|now|anger|has been resolved|yes
However, now the anger has subsided ( yes. )
또 홍진희 씨도 싹싹 빌고 그래서 ( 네. )
also|Hong Jin-hee|Mr/Ms|humbly|begging|so|yes
Also, Hong Jin-hee was begging earnestly, so (yes.)
99년 말에도 가정폭력이나 뭐 데이트폭력에 대한 감수성이 낮을 때니까 ( 예. )
1999|at the end|domestic violence|or|dating violence|regarding|sensitivity|low|at that time|for example
At the end of 1999, the sensitivity towards domestic violence and dating violence was low (yes.)
본인도 이제 없었던 일로 잊어버리고 있었다는 거예요.
you|now|not having been|matter|forgetting|was|is
She herself was also trying to forget that it had never happened.
김종배: 아...이 여성도 탈북자였나요?
Kim Jong-bae|||woman|was a defector
Kim Jong-bae: Ah... was this woman also a defector?
오창익: 아니요.
Oh Chang-ik|no
Oh Chang-ik: No.
대한민국 국민입니다.
Republic of Korea|is a citizen
I am a citizen of the Republic of Korea.
( 예, 예, 예. )
( Yes, yes, yes. )
아...그런데 그, 통일부 사무관이라는 사람이 집에 찾아온 거예요.
ah|but|that|Ministry of Unification|who is an official|person|to the house|came|is
Ah... but, a civil servant from the Ministry of Unification came to my house.
( 예. )
yes
( e.g. )
일행과 함께 찾아왔어요.
with my party|together|came
I came with my party.
( 예, 예. )
yes|yes
( Yes, yes. )
그 통일부 사무관이라는 사람이 이 홍진희 씨의 여자 친구에게 들려준 얘기는 놀라웠습니다.
that|Ministry of Unification|the official|person|this|Hong Jin-hee|'s|female|to the friend|told|story|was surprising
The story that the official from the Ministry of Unification told Ms. Hong Jin-hee's girlfriend was surprising.
( 예. )
yes
( For example. )
서준식이라는 사람이 있는데 당시 인권 운동 사랑방 대표지요.
named Seojun-sik|person|exists|at that time|human rights|movement|Sarangbang|was the representative
There is a person named Seo Jun-sik, who was the representative of the Human Rights Movement Love Room at that time.
( 어우...예, 알죠.
oh|yes|I know
( Oh... yes, I know.
예, 예. )
yes|yeah
Yes, yes. )
서준식이 홍진희와 친하게 지낸다.
Seojun-sik|with Hong Jin-hee|closely|lives
Seojun-sik is close with Hong Jin-hee.
( 네. )
( Yes. )
아, 요번에 기자회견도 홍진희가 서준식의 코치를 받아서 한거다.
ah|this time|press conference|Hong Jin-hee|Seo Jun-sik's|coaching|receiving|was held
Ah, this time, Hong Jin-hee held the press conference with coaching from Seojun-sik.
( 예. )
yes
( Yes. )
서준식은 북한의 영웅이다.
Seojun-sik|of North Korea|is a hero
Seo Jun-sik is a hero of North Korea.
간첩이다.
is a spy
He is a spy.
( 예. )
yes
( For example. )
실제로 서준식 관련 영화가 북한에서 만들어 지기도 해요.
actually|Seo Jun-sik|related|movie|in North Korea|made|also|
In fact, movies related to Seo Jun-sik have been made in North Korea.
( 아... ) 서준식 씨는 형인 서승 씨와 함께 재일 교포 유학생으로 서울대 유학하고 있을 때, ( 예. )
ah|Seo Jun-sik|Mr|older brother|Seo Seung|Mr|together|Japanese resident|expatriate|as a student|Seoul National University|studying abroad|was|when|yes
( Ah... ) Mr. Seo Jun-sik was studying abroad at Seoul National University as a Korean resident student with his older brother, Mr. Seo Seung, at that time, ( Yes. )
71년이죠.
71 years
It's 1971.
( 그렇죠. )
that's right
( That's right. )
박정희, 김대중, 김대중, 박정희 대통령 선거 때 직전에 재일 교포 간첩단 사건을 터트리는 겁니다.
Park Chung-hee|Kim Dae-jung|||president|election|time|just before|Japanese resident|overseas Korean|spy ring|incident|exposing|is
Right before the presidential elections of Park Chung-hee and Kim Dae-jung, the incident of the Korean resident spy ring was exposed.
( 예. )
yes
( For example. )
그래서 서승 씨는 19년, 서준식 씨는 17년 동안 감옥에 있어요.
so|Seo Seung|Mr|19 years|Seo Jun-sik|Mr|17 years|for|in prison|are
So, Mr. Seo Seung has been in prison for 19 years, and Mr. Seo Jun-sik has been in prison for 17 years.
( 그때 고문 당하고. )
at that time|torture|being subjected to
( At that time, they were tortured. )
아, 그럼요.
ah|of course
Ah, of course.
( 예. )
yes
( e.g. )
네.
yes
Yes.
그, 뭐 이거 완전히 전형적인 조작 간첩사건이죠.
that|what|this|completely|typical|fabricated|espionage case
This is, well, a completely typical manipulation espionage case.
( 그렇죠. )
that's right
( That's right. )
그런데 북한에서 이걸 영화로 체제 선전용 영화로 만들었다고 그래요.
but|in North Korea|this|into a movie|regime|propaganda|movie|made|they say
However, I heard that North Korea made this into a propaganda film.
( 아... ) 이 영화에서는 서준식 씨가 죽는거로 나온다고 그러더라고요.
ah|this|in the movie|Seo Jun-sik|Mr|dying|is said to be|I heard
( Ah... ) I heard that in this movie, Seo Jun-sik dies.
( 예. )
yes
( Yes. )
서준식 씨가 평소에 기분 되게 나빠했어요.
Seojun-sik|Mr|usually|mood|very|was bad
Seo Jun-sik was usually in a really bad mood.
멀쩡히 살아 있는데... ( 예. )
perfectly|alive|is|
I'm alive and well... (Yes.)
하여튼.
anyway
Anyway.
그러니까 이 사람들이 하는 얘기는 뭐냐면 북한에서 겨우 탈출해 왔는데 북한 간첩과 어울리니까 이렇게 되면 국정원에서 국가보안법 위반으로 넣을 수밖에 없다.
so|this|people|are|conversation|what|from North Korea|barely|escaping|came|North Korea|with the spy|associating|like this|becomes|from the National Intelligence Service|National Security Law|for violation|putting|only option|is not
So what these people are saying is that they barely escaped from North Korea, but if they associate with North Korean spies, then the National Intelligence Service has no choice but to charge them with violating the National Security Law.
반공법 이런거로.
anti-communist law|like this
Under anti-communism laws and such.
( 네. )
( Yes. )
평생 감옥에서 썩어야 된다.
for life|in prison|should rot|be
They should rot in prison for life.
( 네. )
yes
( Yes. )
냅둘거냐.
are you going to leave it
Are you going to leave them alone?
이렇게 한 거예요.
like this|did|is
This is how it was done.
그런데 조씨라는 이 애인이 굉장히 좀 선량한 분이에요.
but|named Mr Cho|this|girlfriend|very|somewhat|kind|person
However, this lover named Mr. Cho is a very kind person.
( 네. )
yes
( Yes. )
진짜 사랑하고.
true|love
They truly love each other.
( 예. )
yes
( For example. )
겁이 덜컥 나잖아요.
fear|suddenly|comes
You get scared all of a sudden.
( 그렇죠. )
that's right
( That's right. )
그러니까 이, 어떻게 해야되냐 이렇게 물어보니까 이 사람들이 제안하는게 홍진희를 고소를 해놔라.
so|this|how|should I do|like this|when I asked|||suggesting|Hong Jin-hee|lawsuit|file a
So when I asked what to do, these people suggested to sue Hong Jin-hee.
그러면 검찰에 잠깐 구속시키도록 하겠다.
then|to the prosecution|briefly|to detain|I will
Then I will have him briefly detained by the prosecution.
김종배: 그러니까 서준식 씨와 떼어놓기 위해서?
Kim Jong-bae|so|Seo Jun-sik|with|separating|in order to
Kim Jong-bae: So, to separate him from Seo Jun-sik?
오창익: 떼어놓기 위해서.
Oh Chang-ik|separating|in order to
Oh Chang-ik: To separate them.
그러면 ( 네. )
then|yes
Then (yes.)
그게 훨씬 낫지 않냐.
that|much|better|isn't it
Isn't that much better?
( 예. )
yes
( Yes. )
이런 거예요.
this|is
This is it.
( 예. )
yes
( Yes. )
몇달 감옥에 갔다 오면 되는거 아니냐.
a few months|in prison|went|when|is okay|isn't it
Isn't it enough to just go to prison for a few months?
( 예, 예. )
yes|yes
( Yes, yes. )
그럼 자기들이 도와주겠다.
then|they|will help
Then they will help you.
이런 거예요.
this|is
That's what it is.
( 예. )
yes
( e.g. )
그리고 이 통일부 사무관은 뭐, 다 도와줘요.
and|this|Ministry of Unification|official|what|all|helps
And this Ministry of Unification official helps with everything.
이를테면 어...근처 병원으로 데려가서 진단서도 끊게 해주고.
for example|uh|nearby|to the hospital|taking|the medical certificate|get|for me
For example, they take you to a nearby hospital and help you get a medical certificate.
( 네. )
yes
( Yes. )
진단서 비용도 대신 내주고.
medical certificate|cost|instead|pay for me
Also, pay for the medical certificate.
( 예. )
yes
( e.g. )
또 고소장 쓰러 가자고 해서 변호사 사무실에 간 거예요.
again|complaint|to write|to go|so|lawyer|to the office|I went|it is
Then, I was told to go write a complaint, so I went to the lawyer's office.
뭐, 북부지검 앞에.
what|northern district prosecutor's office|in front of
Well, in front of the Northern District Prosecutor's Office.
그러니까 가니까 이제 이미 고소장이 다 써있는 거예요.
so|when I go|now|already|the complaint|all|written|is
So, when I went there, the complaint was already written.
( 허...예. )
huh|yes
( Uh... yes. )
그리고 거기 사인만 하면 되는 거죠.
and|there|just sign|if|is|right
And all I had to do was sign it.
( 예. )
yes
( Yes. )
그리고 뭐, 인지 때도 다, 저, 뭐야... 사무관이 다 내주고 이런 겁니다.
and|what|whether|at the time|all|that|what is|the administrative officer|all|giving|such|is
And well, during the cognition, all of that, I mean... the official provided everything for me.
( 통일부 사무관이라는 사람이 결국 국정원 직원이었죠? )
Ministry of Unification|the official|person|ultimately|National Intelligence Service|was an employee
( So the person who was an official from the Ministry of Unification was actually an employee of the National Intelligence Service, right? )
그렇죠.
that's right
That's right.
( 예. )
yes
( Yes. )
검찰 조사를 받으러 갈 때도 그 사람이 다 데리고 다니고.
the prosecution|investigation|to receive|going|when|that|person|all|with|accompanying
That person took everyone with them when going to the prosecutor's investigation.
( 예, 예, 예. )
( Yes, yes, yes. )
승용차로 모시러 다니고.
by car|to pick up|I go
They drove around in a car to pick them up.
( 예. )
yes
( Yes. )
이래서 이제 고소한 다음에 수사를 거쳐서 이제 홍진희가 구속됩니다.
this|now|the lawsuit|after|investigation|through|now|Hong Jin-hee|will be arrested
This is why after filing a complaint, an investigation will take place and Hong Jin-hee will be arrested.
( 예. )
yes
( Yes. )
근데 상황이 좀 이상한 거예요.
but|situation|a bit|strange|is
But the situation is a bit strange.
성폭행이잖아요.
it's sexual assault
It's sexual assault.
강간 치상.
rape|injury
Rape injury.
( 그렇죠. )
that's right
( That's right. )
횡령까지 있어요.
embezzlement|exists
There is also embezzlement.
김종배: 횡령은 또 뭐예요?
Kim Jong-bae|embezzlement|again|what is
Kim Jong-bae: What is embezzlement?
오창익: 아, 횡령은 뭐냐면 그...저, 뭐야 반지가 있었어요.
Oh Chang-ik|ah|embezzlement|what it is|||what|ring|was
Oh Chang-ik: Ah, embezzlement is, well... there was a ring.
조씨의 비취반지가 있었는데.
Mr Cho's|jade ring|was
There was a jade ring belonging to Mr. Jo.
( 예. )
yes
( Yes. )
그거를 홍진희가 이제 저, 전당포에 맡겨 놓고 어...100만원이 잡혔다는 거예요.
that|Hong Jin-hee|now|I|to the pawn shop|entrusted|leaving|uh|1 million won|was set|
Hong Jin-hee left it at a pawn shop, and it was valued at 1 million won.
( 아... ) 그걸 횡령으로 한 거예요.
ah|that|as embezzlement|done|is
( Ah... ) That's what they did with embezzlement.
( 예. )
yes
( Yes. )
근데 뭐 하여튼 연인 관계에 흔히 있을 수 있는 일이라고 그래요.
but|what|anyway|romantic|in the relationship|commonly|possible|possibility|being||is said
But anyway, they say it's something that can commonly happen in a romantic relationship.
본인들이 다 그렇게 얘길 해요.
they|all|like that|talk|do
They all talk about it that way.
( 예. )
yes
( e.g. )
그러니까 그거를 이제 범죄로 만들 수 있는 거죠.
so|that|now|into a crime|make|possibility|is|right
So, that can now be made into a crime.
내 허락 없이 자기가 가져가서 맡겼다.
my|permission|without|he/she|taking|entrusted
They took it and left it without my permission.
이렇게.
like this
Like this.
( 예, 예, 예. )
( Yes, yes, yes. )
하여튼 그런, 그런 얘기입니다.
anyway|that kind of|that|is a story
Anyway, that's the kind of story it is.
( 예. )
yes
( Yes. )
단순히 겁만 줘가지고 간첩과 떼어놓을려고 했는데 상황을 보니까 어, 홍진희 씨가 징역 15년 이상 살 수도 있고 무기도 된다는 이런 얘기를 들은 거예요.
simply|fear|by giving|with the spy|trying to separate|was|situation|looking at|oh|Hong Jin-hee|Ms|imprisonment|15 years|or more|live|possibility|is|also|becoming|this|story|heard|is
I was just trying to scare them to separate them from the spy, but looking at the situation, I heard that Hong Jin-hee could serve more than 15 years in prison and could also be armed.
이 양반이.
this|gentleman
This gentleman.
( 예. )
yes
( Yes. )
그러니까 큰일 난거지.
so|big problem|has happened
So it's a big deal.
앗 뜨거워라.
ah|it's hot
Ouch, that's hot.
이런 거예요.
this|is
This is how it is.
( 예. )
yes
( Yes. )
그래서 고소를 취사하려고, 취하하려고 그랬어요.
so|the lawsuit|to withdraw|to drop|I was going to
So I was trying to withdraw the complaint.
( 예. )
yes
( Yes. )
그러니까 사무관 얘기가 만약 당신이 고소를 취하하면 당신 무고죄로 당신이 감옥간다.
so|the administrative officer|conversation|if|you|the lawsuit|withdraw||for false accusation|you|go to prison
So the officer said that if you withdraw your complaint, you will go to jail for false accusation.
이런 거예요.
this|is
That's how it is.
( 예. )
yes
( Yes. )
하... 그런데 나중에 이 사무관이 국정원 직원이란걸 알게 된거죠.
ha|but|later|this|civil servant|National Intelligence Service|being an employee|finding out|was
Ha... But later, I found out that this officer was an employee of the National Intelligence Service.
( 아... ) 동료 탈북자를 통해서.
ah|colleague|defector|through
( Ah... ) Through a fellow defector.
( 이 조씨가.
this|Mr Jo
( This Mr. Cho.
예. )
yes
Yes. )
예, 조씨가 이제 사무관이라는 사람이 ( 예. )
yes|Mr Cho|now|is a civil servant|person|example
Yes, Mr. Cho is now a civil servant ( Yes. )
국정원 직원이라는걸 알게된 거예요.
National Intelligence Service|that he is an employee|I found out|it is
I found out that he is an employee of the National Intelligence Service.
( 예, 예, 예. )
( Yes, yes, yes. )
아...어떻게 해야되나...그래서 저희하고 이제 연결이 됐고 ( 예. )
ah|how|should I|so|with us|now|connected|was|yes
Ah... what should I do... so we got connected with him now ( Yes. )
또 저희가 한겨레에 이제 취재하도록 해가지고 이제 취재도 하고 그러는데요.
also|we|to Hankyoreh|now|to conduct an interview|and|now|the interview|doing|is happening
And we are also conducting interviews with Hankyoreh.
( 예. )
yes
( e.g. )
아, 다 확인합니다.
ah|all|I confirm
Ah, I confirm everything.
이를테면 그, 사무관이 알려준 전화번호로 걸으니까 그게 국가정보원의 탈북자 담당 파트였다는걸 확인했고요.
for example|that|the civil servant|provided|phone number|I called|that|of the National Intelligence Service|defector|in charge of|was part|I confirmed
For example, when I called the phone number that the officer provided, I confirmed that it was the part responsible for defectors at the National Intelligence Service.
( 예. )
yes
( e.g. )
뭐, 전화걸으니까 뭐, 부인하고 뭐, 이사갔다고 그러고 뭐, 이러고.
what|when I called||with my wife||said they moved|and||like this
Well, when I called, they said that his wife had moved and all that.
( 예. )
yes
( Yes. )
그 다음에 이제 그...홍씨의 애인인 조씨와 사무관이라고 하는 국정원 직원들이 만나는 장면도 한겨레 기자가 다 촬영합니다.
that|next|now|that|Hong's|boyfriend|with Jo|who is an officer|working|National Intelligence Service|employees|meeting|scene|Hankyoreh|reporter|all|is filming
Then, the scene where Hong's lover, Mr. Cho, meets with the National Intelligence Service staff, is all captured by a Hankyoreh reporter.
( 아, 예. )
ah|yes
( Ah, yes. )
국정원 직원이 우리를 미행한게 아니라 거꾸로 우리가 국정원 직원을, 직원을 미행해서 증거를 다 확보해놔요.
National Intelligence Service|employee||was following|not|conversely|we||||by following|evidence|all|have secured
It wasn't the National Intelligence Service employee who was following us, but rather we were following the National Intelligence Service employee and have secured all the evidence.
김종배: 그거 김아영 씨 사건하고 비슷하네.
Kim Jong-bae|that|Kim Ah-young|Ms|incident|is similar
Kim Jong-bae: That's similar to the Kim Ah-young case.
오창익: 네...그래서 아...또 조씨를 통해서 이게 꼬드겨가지고 저, 고소를 조작하고 ( 예. )
Oh Chang-ik|||||Mr Jo|through|this|seducing|me|lawsuit|manipulating|
Oh Chang-ik: Yes... so, ah... through Mr. Jo, they lured us into fabricating the lawsuit and (yes.)
고소하라고 압박했다.
to file a complaint|pressured
They pressured us to file a lawsuit.
이런거도 맞고.
this kind of thing|is correct
This is also correct.
( 예, 예, 예. )
( Yes, yes, yes. )
그 다음에 이제는 신문사 통해서 국정원에 정식으로 문제제기를 하고 면담 요청을 합니다.
the|next|now|newspaper||to the National Intelligence Service|formally|raising an issue|and|meeting|request|I make
Then, I will formally raise the issue with the National Intelligence Service through the newspaper and request a meeting.
어떻게 된거냐.
how|did it happen
What happened?
( 예, 예. )
yes|yes
( Yes, yes. )
이때는 이제 국민의 정부, 김대중 정부 때니까 국정원에서도 면담에 응해요.
at this time|now|of the people|government|Kim Dae-jung|government|since it is|even the National Intelligence Service|to the meeting|responds
At this time, it was during the government of the people, the Kim Dae-jung administration, so the National Intelligence Service also responds to the interview.
( 네. )
yes
( Yes. )
탈북자 담당 직원들이 나옵니다.
defector|in charge of|employees|are coming out
The staff in charge of North Korean defectors come out.
조씨 모른다고 그래요.
Mr Cho|that I don't know|is what he/she says
They say they don't know Mr. Jo.
만난 적도 없다고 그러고.
met|even|not|says
They also say they have never met.
( 예. )
yes
( Yes. )
그리고 홍진희 씨를 구속시키는 게 국정원에 무슨 이익이 있냐 이렇게 얘기해요.
and|Hong Jin-hee|Ms|arresting|thing|to the National Intelligence Service|what|benefit|is there|like this|they say
And they say, what benefit would it bring to the National Intelligence Service to arrest Ms. Hong Jin-hee?
또 멋있는 말을 하는데 피해자를 꼬드겨가지고 고소하게 했다는 발상 자체가 ( 예. )
also|cool|words|saying|victim|seducing|to sue|that|idea|itself|
The very idea of seducing the victim into filing a lawsuit while making cool statements is (e.g.)
국가정보원의 정신과 맞지 않는다.
National Intelligence Service|mental|does not match|not
not in line with the mental state of the National Intelligence Service.
이렇게 얘기합니다.
like this|I talk
This is what is being said.
말씀드린 것처럼 우린 이미 다 증거를 확보해놨고 ( 예. )
I told you|like|we|already|all|evidence|have secured|for example
As I mentioned, we have already secured all the evidence (e.g.)
그 말을 한 직원이 조씨를 만나고 같이 식당에서 뭐, 갈비도 먹고 이런 것도 다 확인했어요.
that|word|spoken|employee|Mr Jo|meeting|together|at the restaurant|well|galbi|eating|this|thing|all|was confirmed
The employee who said that met with Mr. Cho and confirmed that they ate things like ribs together at a restaurant.
( 예. )
yes
( Yes. )
사진도 있고.
the photo|exists
There are also photos.
이게 이제 한겨레21에서 99년 4월 22일치에 커버스토리로 다뤘는데요 ( 예. )
this|now|||1999|April|22nd issue|as a cover story|was covered|
This was covered as a cover story in Hankyoreh 21 on April 22, 1999 ( Yes. )
한겨레21 독자 중에서 혹시 이 커버스토리가 사람이 아니라 코브라가 이렇게 혀를 내밀고 있는 장면의 사진이 하나 있어요.
Hankyoreh 21|reader|among|perhaps|this|cover story|person|not|cobra|like this|tongue|sticking out|is|scene|photo|one|exists
Among the readers of Hankyoreh 21, there is a photo of this cover story where a cobra is sticking out its tongue instead of a person.
그거 희한한.
that|strange
That's strange.
김종배: 그거, 코브라를, 국정원을 코브라에 비유한 겁니까?
Kim Jong-bae|that|cobra|National Intelligence Service|to the cobra|compared|is it
Kim Jong-bae: So, are you comparing the National Intelligence Service to a cobra?
오창익: 네, 네.
Oh Chang-ik|yes|yes
Oh Chang-ik: Yes, yes.
제목이 <국정원의 비열한 복수극>입니다.
the title|of the National Intelligence Service|despicable|revenge drama|
The title is <The Despicable Revenge of the National Intelligence Service>.
( 예, 예. )
yes|yes
( Yes, yes. )
하…
ha
Ha...
김종배: 그래서 홍진희 씨 어떻게 됐습니까?
Kim Jong-bae|so|Hong Jin-hee|Mr/Ms|how|is doing
Kim Jong-bae: So what happened to Hong Jin-hee?
나왔죠.
came out
It came out.
이제 소를 취하해가지고 나왔어요.
now|the cow|having taken|I came out
Now I took the cow and came out.
김종배: 예, 예, 예, 예.
Kim Jong-bae|yes|yes|yes|yes
Kim Jong-bae: Yes, yes, yes, yes.
그나마 다행이네요.
at least|it's a relief
That's a relief.
그러면 얼마나 있었어요.
then|how long|was there
So how long was it?
구치소에는 그러면?
in the detention center|then
How about in the detention center?
오창익: 아, 뭐, 한...달 조금 넘었나.
Oh Chang-ik|ah|what|one|month|a little|has passed
Oh Chang-ik: Ah, well, a little over a month, I guess.
( 예, 예, 예. )
( Yes, yes, yes. )
한달 쯤 있었어요.
one month|about|was
It has been about a month.
( 예, 예. )
yes|yes
( Yes, yes. )
이것 뿐만이 아니라 그, 회장인 한창권 씨, 부회장인 뭐, 유재희 씨, 이런 양반들도 이제 구속이 되는데 폭행 사건에 연루되요.
this|only|not|that|chairman|Han Chang-gwon|Mr|vice chairman|what|Yoo Jae-hee||these|gentlemen also|now|arrest|being|assault|incident|involved
Not only this, but also Mr. Han Chang-gwon, the chairman, and Mr. Yoo Jae-hee, the vice chairman, are now being arrested in connection with the assault case.
탈북자들이 와가지고 시비 걸고 이제 ( 예, 예. )
the defectors|come|trouble|causing|now|yes|
Defectors come and start trouble now ( Yes, yes. )
서로 그래서 약간 주먹다짐을 하는데 ( 예. )
each other|so|slightly|fistfight|having|
So they end up having a bit of a fistfight (for example).
또 고소해가지고 들어가게 되고 이런거고요.
again|suing|going in|becomes|this is the case
Then they file a complaint and end up going in, and things like that.
( 예, 예. )
yes|yes
(Yes, yes.)
그 뿐만이 아니라 이 양반들이 안보 전문 강사직 이런거 하잖아요?
that|only|not|this|gentleman|security|expert|instructor position|such things|do
Not only that, but these guys also work as security experts, right?
( 예. )
yes
( e.g. )
여기에 다 제외됩니다.
here|all|are excluded
Everything here is excluded.
박탈당하는거고요.
being deprived
It's being deprived.
김종배: 일거리가 끊겨버리는 거잖아요.
Kim Jong-bae|work|being cut off|isn't it
Kim Jong-bae: It means the work is cut off.
오창익: 네, 그 다음에 이, 좋은 방법은 아닌데 대형 교회들이, 여의도 순복음교회같은 데들이 그렇게 많이 하는데, 탈북자들 보고 교회 예배에 출석하라고 그래요.
Oh Chang-ik|yes|that|next|this|good|method|not|large|churches|Yeouido|like the Full Gospel Church|they|like that|many|do|North Korean defectors|to|church|worship service|to attend|they say
Oh Chang-ik: Yes, and then, this is not a good method, but large churches, like the Yoido Full Gospel Church, do this a lot, telling North Korean defectors to attend church services.
( 네. )
( Yes. )
그러면은 뭐, 매주에 나가면 한 달에 네 번 또는 다섯 번 나가잖아요?
then|what|every week|if I go out|one|in a month|four|times|or|five|times|I go out
So, if they go out every week, they go four or five times a month, right?
그럼 한 달에 50만원씩 이렇게, 줍니다.
then|one|month|500000 won|like this|I give
Then they give about 500,000 won a month like this.
( 아, 진짜요? )
ah|is it true
( Oh, really? )
어, 그럼요.
oh|of course
Yes, of course.
( 왜요? )
why
( Why? )
아니 그러니까, 하나는 자기들이 탈북자 돕는다 이런 거도 있고 탈북자들도 우리 교회 나온다 이런 것도 있고.
no|so||they|defector|help|such|thing|exists|defectors also|our|church|come|||
Well, I mean, one is that they help North Korean defectors and there are also North Korean defectors who come to our church.
두 가지죠.
two|things
It's two things.
김종배: 하...아, 돈을 준단 말이에요?
Kim Jong-bae|||money|gives|is saying
Kim Jong-bae: Ha... Oh, are you saying they will give money?
와서 예배봤다고?
you came|to the worship service
Did they come and worship?
(지금도 줘요.)
now|give
(They still give it now.)
십일조를 내는게 아니라?
the tithe|paying|not
Isn't it about paying tithes?
오창익: 네, 그렇죠.
Oh Chang-ik|yes|that's right
Oh Chang-ik: Yes, that's right.
( 나, 참. )
I|really
( Me, really. )
아, 모르, 모르세요?
ah|know|don't you know
Oh, you don't know?
( 예. )
yes
( e.g. )
하여튼 그런데 ( 예. )
anyway|but|
Anyway, but ( e.g. )
이런 것도 이를테면 취소하는겁니다.
this|thing|for example|is canceling
This kind of thing, for instance, is canceling.
치사하게.
meanly
How petty.
김종배: 그것까지 끊어버렸다?
Kim Jong-bae|that|cut off
Kim Jong-bae: Did you cut that off too?
오창익: 예.
Oh Chang-ik|yes
Oh Chang-ik: Yes.
여의도 순복음교회가 ( 예. )
Yeouido|Full Gospel Church|
Yeouido Full Gospel Church (Yes.)
교회 나오면 50만원 주는 거, ( 네. )
church|if you come|500000 won|giving|thing|yes
Giving 500,000 won for coming to church, (Yes.)
이, 뭐...뭐라고 그럴까요.
this|what|should I say|should I say
This, um... what should I say.
보조금이랄까요.
subsidy
Maybe a subsidy.
( 네. )
( Yes. )
이거도 취소됐고.
this|was canceled
This has also been canceled.
( 예. )
yes
( e.g. )
그 다음에 심지어 이, 생계 보조금을 주게 되어 있습니다.
that|next|even|this|living|subsidy|will give|be|is
Then, they are even supposed to provide living subsidies.
많지 않아요 근데.
not much|is not|
But it's not much.
( 예. )
yes
( e.g. )
이게 통일부에서 주는 건데 매달 25만원에서 30만원밖에 안되는데 정말 그, 생계비죠.
this|from the Ministry of Unification|gives|thing|every month|from 250000 won|only 300000 won|is not|really|that|living expenses
This is what the Ministry of Unification provides, but it's only about 250,000 to 300,000 won a month, which is really just living expenses.
( 네. )
( Yes. )
이것도 이제 통일부에서 끊어버리게 되고...뭐, 이럼, 이럼, 이럽니다.
this too|now|from the Ministry of Unification|will be cut off|will be|well|like this||is like this
Now, this will also be cut off by the Ministry of Unification... well, this is how it is.
김종배: 완전히 다 끊어버렸네.
Kim Jong-bae|completely|all|has cut off
Kim Jong-bae: They've completely cut everything off.
(아, 그렇죠.)
ah|that's right
(Ah, that's right.)
예.
Yes.
오창익: 그러니까 뭐, 보복이 아주 가혹한 거예요.
Oh Chang-ik|so|what|the retaliation|very|harsh|is
Oh Chang-ik: So, the retaliation is very harsh.
김종배: 완전히 손가락 빨게 만들어 버리는 거죠.
Kim Jong-bae|completely|finger|sucking|make|to|thing
Kim Jong-bae: It completely makes you suck your thumb.
오창익: 네, 가혹한 보복이 있다고 이제 언론을 통해서 알리게 되면서 이런게 풀리긴 하지만.
Oh Chang-ik|yes|harsh|retaliation|exists|now|through the media|through|informing|as|this|is resolved|but
Oh Chang-ik: Yes, as it becomes known through the media that there are harsh retaliations, this does help to alleviate the situation.
( 예. )
yes
( Yes. )
그래도 가혹한 보복을 받습니다.
still|harsh|retaliation|receives
Still, harsh retaliations are received.
( 예. )
yes
( Yes. )
아...지금도 그렇다고 그러죠.
ah|even now|that is the case|isn't it
Ah... it's still like that now.
어제...저... 정청래 씨죠.
yesterday|I|Jeong Cheong-rae|is
Yesterday... um... it's Jeong Cheong-rae.
( 예. )
yes
( Yes. )
민주당 국회 정보위원회 간사가 ( 간사죠.
Democratic Party|National Assembly|Intelligence Committee|secretary|is the secretary
The Democratic Party's National Assembly Information Committee secretary ( that's the secretary).
예. )
yes
Yes.)
국정원 2차장을 만났더니 ( 예. )
National Intelligence Service|Deputy Director|I met|
When I met the Deputy Director of the National Intelligence Service (Yes.)
국정원 2차장이 하는 얘기가 국가정보원 검찰 간첩조작사건에서 ( 네. )
National Intelligence Service|Deputy Director|is|talk|National Intelligence Service|prosecution|in the espionage fabrication case|yes
The Deputy Director of the National Intelligence Service said that in the National Intelligence Service's prosecution of the spy fabrication case (Yes.)
문서 위조는 없었다.
document|forgery|did not exist
there was no document forgery.
( 어제 그랬대요? )
yesterday|did that happen
( Did that happen yesterday? )
어제 그랬다는 소식이 오늘 아침 뉴스로 이렇게 나오더라고요.
yesterday|that|news|today|morning|in the news|like this|came out
I heard that it was reported in the morning news today.
( 네, 네. )
yes|yes
( Yes, yes. )
국정원은 그런 일 하지 않는다.
the National Intelligence Service|such|work|does|not
The National Intelligence Service does not do such things.
김종배: 아, 또 그런 일 하지 않는다?
Kim Jong-bae|ah|again|such|thing|do|not
Kim Jong-bae: Ah, you don't do that kind of thing anymore?
오창익: 그럼요.
Oh Chang-ik|of course
Oh Chang-ik: Of course not.
그러니까 일관되요 이런 것들은... ( 예. )
so|is consistent|these|things|for example
So it is consistent, these things... ( Yes. )
참 세월이 지나도 ( 예. )
truly|time|passes|
Indeed, even as time passes ( Yes. )
뭐, 역사는 비극으로 반복됩니다.
what|history|as a tragedy|repeats
Well, history repeats itself as a tragedy.
( 예. )
yes
( For example. )
하여튼 나중에 이제 조금 잘 풀려서 식당도 냈는데 식당이 망했어요.
anyway|later|now|a little|well|resolved|restaurant also|I opened|restaurant|went bankrupt
Anyway, later on, things got a bit better and I opened a restaurant, but the restaurant failed.
( 아... ) 에...그래서 또 홍진희 씨가 뭐, 카드깡도 하고 뭐 이러면서 좀 어렵게 산다는 얘기가 어디서 어렴풋이 들려왔습니다.
ah|at|so|again|Hong Jin-hee|Ms|what|card scam|doing||while|somewhat|difficult|living|story|somewhere|vaguely|was heard
( Ah... ) Um... So I vaguely heard that Hong Jin-hee is also doing some card scams and living a bit difficultly.
( 예. )
yes
( e.g. )
그러다가 홍진희 씨 소식을 다시 듣게 된거는요.
then|Hong Jin-hee|Mr/Ms|news|again|hear|was
Then, I heard news about Hong Jin-hee again.
몇 년 있다가 2004년 11월이었어요.
a few|years|later|2004|was November
It was a few years later, in November 2004.
( 예. )
yes
( e.g. )
2003년에도 많이 들었습니다.
in 2003|a lot|I heard
I heard a lot about it in 2003.
( 예. )
yes
( For example. )
고 즈음에 어떤 일들이 있었냐면, 중국 베이징이나 상하이같은 데에 뭐, 캐나다 대사관, 일본 대사관, 또 뭐, 국제학교 이런데에, 그러니까 저, 치외법권 지역이죠.
the|around|what|events|were|China|Beijing or|Shanghai|in|like|Canadian|embassy|Japanese||also||international school|in places like this|so|that|extraterritorial|area
Around that time, there were events in places like Beijing or Shanghai, such as the Canadian Embassy, the Japanese Embassy, and international schools, which are extraterritorial areas.
( 네, 네, 네. )
( Yes, yes, yes. )
이런 데에 탈북자들 수십 명이 막 뛰어들어가고 ( 예, 예. )
this|place|defectors|dozens|people|suddenly|running in|yes|yes
Dozens of North Korean defectors suddenly jumped in here (yes, yes.)
담 넘어 들어가고 그런 걸 화면으로 찍는 것들 보셨죠.
wall|over|entering|such|things|on screen|filming|things|you have seen
You saw those things being filmed as they jumped over the wall.
김종배: 네. TV에도 여러 번 뉴스에도 나오고.
Kim Jong-bae|yes|on TV|several|times|in the news|appears
Kim Jong-bae: Yes. It has appeared on TV news several times.
오창익: 그렇죠, 그렇죠, 그렇죠.
Oh Chang-ik|that's right|that's right|that's right
Oh Chang-ik: That's right, that's right, that's right.
탈북자 문제로 국제적으로 관, 관, 관심이랄까 ( 예. )
North Korean defectors|issue|internationally|interest||perhaps interest|for example
The issue of North Korean defectors has garnered international attention, so to speak.
여론을 환기시키는 그, 효과도 있었지만 ( 예. )
the public opinion|stimulating|that|effect|was|
There was also an effect of raising public awareness.
굉장히 위험한 작전이기도 했습니다.
very|dangerous|operation|was
It was also a very dangerous operation.
( 예. )
yes
(e.g.)
왜냐면 애, 갓난애 들쳐 업은 엄마가 그 담을 넘어가고 막, 넘어가다 잡히기도 하고 막 그랬죠.
because|child|newborn|carrying|carrying|mother|that|wall|crossing|just|crossing over|getting caught|and|just|was
Because, you know, there were moments when a mother carrying a baby would try to climb over that wall and sometimes get caught.
김종배: 그리고 막 뛰어 들어가다가 넘어져서 고꾸라지는 장면도 있었고 그랬죠.
Kim Jong-bae|and|suddenly|running|while entering|tripping|falling over|scene|was|like that
Kim Jong-bae: And there were scenes where they would run in and fall over.
오창익: 그렇죠, 그렇죠.
Oh Chang-ik|that's right|that's right
Oh Chang-ik: That's right, that's right.
그리고 이제 중국 공안에 체포되기도 하고.
and|now|Chinese|to the public security|also being arrested|and
And then they would also get arrested by the Chinese police.
( 네, 맞아요.
yes|that's right
( Yes, that's right.
예. )
yes
Yes. )
이런 위험한 일들을 했는데 이런 일들을 홍진희 씨가 하게 된 거예요.
this|dangerous|work|did|this|work|Hong Jin-hee|Ms|become|became|is
These dangerous tasks were done, and it was Hong Jin-hee who ended up doing them.
( 이른바 기획 탈북 일을 한거죠? )
so-called|planning|defection|work|was
( So, this is what is called planned defection, right? )
기획 탈북 브로커를 한 겁니다.
planning|defector|broker|was|is
I was working as a planned defector broker.
( 아, 예. )
ah|yes
( Ah, yes. )
아이고.
oh dear
Oh my.
그래서 중국에 살면서 기획 탈북 브로커를 하다가 들켜가지고 쫓겨나요.
so|in China|while living|planning|defection|broker|while|getting caught|I get chased away
So while living in China, I was working as a planned defector broker, but I got caught and was chased away.
( 예. )
yes
( e.g. )
추방을 당합니다.
the expulsion|is received
You will be expelled.
( 예. )
yes
( e.g. )
그리고 중국에 들어오지 못하게 이게 ( 네. )
and|to China|entering|not allowed|this|yes
And this means you cannot enter China ( yes. )
조치가 되죠.
the measure|will be taken
Measures will be taken.
( 예. )
yes
( Yes. )
그런데 또 일본을 통해서 다시 중국에 밀입국을 해요.
but|again|Japan||again|to China|illegal immigration|does
However, they again illegally enter China through Japan.
( 예. )
yes
( Yes. )
그래서 기획 탈북 일을 합니다.
so|planning|defection|work|I do
So I work in planned defection.
기획 탈북 일이 왜 하냐하면 뭐, 홍진희 씨 마음 속에 이제 인도주의적인 어떤 것도 있을 수 있어요.
planning|defection|matter|why|is|well|Hong Jin-hee|Mr/Ms|heart|inside|now|humanitarian|some|thing|possible|possibility|is
The reason I do planned defection work is that, well, there might be some humanitarian aspect in Hong Jin-hee's heart.
그런데 이게 두당 얼마씩 되거든요.
but|this|per person|how much|is
However, this costs a certain amount per person.
( 아... ) 들어오게 되면.
ah|come in|if
(Ah...) When they come in.
김종배: 아...이른바 수수료 받는다라는 그...
Kim Jong-bae|||commission|receiving|that
Kim Jong-bae: Ah... the so-called receiving a commission...
(그럼요.)
of course
(Of course.)
예.
Yes.
오창익: 그러니까 탈북자와 관련된 데에 정말 인도주의, 정말 사람에 대한 사랑, 또, 이, 난민 같은 분들 아닙니까.
Oh Chang-ik|so|with North Korean defectors|related|to|truly|humanitarian||to people|about|love|also|this|refugees|like|people|aren't they
Oh Chang-ik: So, regarding North Korean defectors, it is truly humanitarian, truly love for people, and these are, well, refugees.
쫓겨나고 디아스포라같은 분들에 대한 애정으로 하는 분도 약간, 조금 있어요.
being expelled|like the diaspora|people|about|with affection|doing|person|slightly|a little|exists
There are a few people who have a bit of affection for those who are expelled and are like a diaspora.
( 예. )
yes
( Yes. )
근데 많은 분들은 사실은 돈 놓고 돈 먹기 방식을 많이 합니다.
but|many|people|actually|money|putting|money|eating|method|often|do
But many people actually engage in a money-for-money scheme.
김종배: 그렇게 탈북시켜서 국내에 들어오면 저 정착지원금이라는게 나오니까... (네, 네.)
Kim Jong-bae|like that|by defecting|into the country|if they come in|that|settlement support fund|comes out|(yes|yes)
Kim Jong-bae: Once they are defected and come into the country, there is a settlement support fund that comes out... (Yes, yes.)
거기서 얼마 떼서 나 다오.
from there|how much|take|me|give
Take some from there and come to me.
(그렇죠.)
that's right
(That's right.)
그런식으로 이제 하는 거죠?
like that|now|doing|is
Is that how it's done now?
오창익: 근데 그게 말로 하면 안되니까 (네. )
Oh Chang-ik|but|that|verbally|if you say|it won't work|(yes
Oh Chang-ik: But you can't say that in words (Yes.)
처음엔 내가 너를 탈북시켜준다고 할 때 벌써 이제 저, 지불 각서 같은거 씁니다.
at first|I|you|will help you defect|when|time|already|now|I|payment|written agreement|like|I write
At first, when I said I would help you defect, I already wrote something like a payment agreement.
( 예. )
yes
( Yes. )
그래서 기획 탈북자와 탈북자, 예비 탈북자, 탈북자죠.
so|planning|with the defector|defector|prospective|defector|is a defector
So, it's planned defectors and defectors, prospective defectors, and defectors.
탈북, 한국에 들어올 탈북자가 채권채무관계로 엮이는 거예요.
defector|to Korea|entering|defector|in a creditor-debtor relationship|becoming involved|is
Defectors, those who are coming into South Korea, get entangled in creditor-debtor relationships.
( 네. )
yes
( Yes. )
뭐, 그, 돈 2천 만원을 꿨다, 꿔줬다 이런 식으로.
what|that|money|2000|ten thousand won|I borrowed|I lent|like this|way
Well, I lent 20 million won, something like that.
( 예, 예. )
yes|yes
( Yes, yes. )
그런, 그런 식으로 합니다.
that|such|way|we do
That's how it works.
홍진희 씨가 참 이렇게, 이렇게까지 되요.
Hong Jin-hee|Ms|really|like this|to this extent|is possible
Ms. Hong Jin-hee is really, this is really how far it goes.
김종배: 그러면 결국은 돈 받고 기획 탈북 일을 하게 된건 (예.)
Kim Jong-bae|then|ultimately|money|receiving|planning|defection|work|to|became|(example)
Kim Jong-bae: So in the end, it means that you ended up doing planned defection work for money (yes.)
금강옥이라는 식당 망하고...
called Geumgangok|restaurant|going bankrupt
The restaurant Geumgangok went out of business...
(그렇죠.)
that's right
(That's right.)
국내에서 돈 벌 수 있는 길은 거의 다 막히고.
in the country|money|earn|possibility|existing|path|almost|all|blocked
Most ways to make money domestically are almost blocked.
오창익: 네, 네, 네.
Oh Chang-ik|yes|yes|yes
Oh Chang-ik: Yes, yes, yes.
좀 안타까운 경우입니다.
a little|unfortunate|situation
It's a bit unfortunate.
김종배: 그래서 결국은 거기까지 간 건가요.
Kim Jong-bae|so|eventually|to that point|went|is it
Kim Jong-bae: So is that where it ultimately ended up?
오창익: 그렇게라도 먹고 살아야되니까 ( 예. )
Oh Chang-ik|like that|eating|have to live|yes
Oh Chang-ik: I have to live like that, so ( yes. )
뭐...그런 일을 해요.
what|such|work|do
Well... I do that kind of work.
꼭 나쁜 일이다, 이렇게 얘기하기도 좀 어려운 측면이 있습니다.
definitely|bad|is|like this|talking|a bit|difficult|aspect|exists
It's a bit difficult to say that it's necessarily a bad thing.
( 네, 네, 네, 네. )
( Yes, yes, yes, yes. )
뭐, 뭐, 뭐...땅파서 하는 것도 아니고 그러니까... ( 예. )
what|||digging|doing|thing|not|so|yes
What, what, what... it's not like we're digging into the ground or anything... ( Yes. )
어느정도 비용도 드는 것도 사실이고요.
to some extent|cost|incurred|also|is true
It's also true that it costs a certain amount.
( 예, 예. )
yes|yes
( Yes, yes. )
그러다가 이 양반이 2004년 11월에 중국에서 체포되가지고요.
then|this|gentleman|in 2004|in November|in China|was arrested
Then this person was arrested in China in November 2004.
그, 한 번은 추방됐다가 다시 중국에 들어가서 그 일을 또 하니까 이번엔 체포되서 7년 형을 받습니다.
he|one|time|was exiled|again|to China|entering|that|job|again|doing|this time|was arrested|7 years|sentence|receives
Well, once he was exiled and then re-entered China to do that work again, and this time he was arrested and received a 7-year sentence.
( 어이고, 예. )
oh|yes
( Oh my, yes. )
7년 형.
7 years|sentence
7-year sentence.
중국 감옥은요, 무서워요.
China|prison|is scary
Chinese prisons are scary.
( 예, 그렇다면서요? )
yes|is that so
( Yes, is that so? )
네.
yes
Yes.
대한민국 감옥보다 되게 열악합니다.
South Korea|than prison|very|is poor
It's much worse than prisons in South Korea.
( 예. )
yes
( Yes. )
이게 인권이나 민주주의의 수준을 보여주거든요.
this|human rights|of democracy|level|shows
This shows the level of human rights and democracy.
( 그렇죠, 교도소가 원래...) 대한민국 감옥보다 유럽의 감옥이 훨씬 좋고, 유럽도 중유럽보단 북유럽의 감옥이 훨씬 좋습니다.)
that's right|prison|originally|South Korea|than prison|European|prison|much|better|Europe also|than Central Europe|Nordic|prison|much|is better
(That's right, prisons are originally...) Prisons in Europe are much better than those in South Korea, and prisons in Northern Europe are much better than those in Central Europe.)
김종배: 예, 근데 미국 교도소는 별로...
Kim Jong-bae|yes|but|American|prison|not very good
Kim Jong-bae: Yes, but American prisons are not great...
(엉망진창이죠.)
is a mess
(They're a mess.)
그렇죠.
that's right
That's right.
오창익: 인권 수준이 낮으니까 그렇죠.
Oh Chang-ik|human rights|level|is low|that's right
Oh Chang-ik: It's because the level of human rights is low.
( 예. )
yes
( Yes. )
미국 교도소는요, 뭐, 한 50% 이상이 민영교도소예요.
United States|prison|well|about||is private prison
In the United States, more than 50% of prisons are privately owned.
교도소 회사가 운영해요.
prison|company|operates
The prison is operated by a company.
( 네. )
yes
( Yes. )
회사의 목적은 뭡니까.
the company's|purpose|is
What is the purpose of the company?
영리잖아요.
is smart
It's for profit.
영리.
clever
Clever.
( 그렇죠. )
that's right
( That's right. )
그러니까 더 많은 재소자가 들어와야 되고, 재소자가 더 오래있어야 되는거예요.
so|more|many|inmates|should come in|be|inmates|more|should stay|be
So, more inmates need to come in, and inmates need to stay longer.
( 참, 아이고... ) 그, 미국 교도소 중에는 외신에서 한 번 보셨는지 모르겠는데.
really|oh my|that|American|prison|among|in foreign news|one|time|you saw|I don't know
( Oh, my... ) I wonder if you've seen this in foreign news about some American prisons.
체육관 같은 데.
gym|like|place
Like a gym.
( 예. )
yes
( For example. )
진짜 체육관이에요.
real|is a gym
It's a real gym.
큰 체육관에 침대가 쫙 있는거예요.
big|in the gym|beds|spread out|are
There are beds lined up in a big gym.
난민, 무슨, 임시 수용 시설처럼.
refugee|what|temporary|housing|facility like
Refugees, like some temporary shelter.
교도소 방이 있는게 아니라 우리가 흔히 생각하는 감방이 아니라.
prison|room|having|not|we|commonly|thinking|cell|not
It's not a prison cell as we commonly think of it.
그러니까 한 번에 5백명이 동시에 자는 그런 교도소도 있어요.
so|one|at a time|500 people|simultaneously|sleeping|such|prison|exists
So there are prisons where 500 people can sleep at the same time.
김종배: 아 무슨 이재민도 아니고 그게 뭐예요?
Kim Jong-bae|ah|what|disaster victim|not|that|what is
Kim Jong-bae: Oh, what is that, it's not like they're disaster victims?
오창익: 그러니까요.
Oh Chang-ik|that's right
Oh Chang-ik: That's right.
비용을 낮추잖아요.
the cost|is lowered
They lower the costs.
( 야, 심하다.
hey|it's severe
( Hey, that's harsh.
진짜... ) 직원들 다 비정규직으로 고용하면 되고.
really|employees|all|as non-regular|if hired|is fine
Seriously... ) They can just hire all the employees as non-regular workers.
그쵸?
right
Right?
( 예, 예. )
yes|yes
( Yes, yes. )
소장이나 과장만 월급 두 배로 주고 이런 방식으로 하고 있어요.
the director|manager|salary|two|times|giving|this|way|doing|is
They are doing it this way by giving only the director or manager double the salary.
( 예. )
yes
( Yes. )
호주, 오스트레일리아 같은 경우에 민영 교도소 한 10%, 영국도 이렇게 되는데.
Australia|Australia|like|in case of|private|prison|about|UK also|like this|is
In Australia, for example, about 10% of prisons are privately owned, and the same goes for the UK.
어...하여튼 엉망진창입니다.
uh|anyway|is a mess
Um... anyway, it's a complete mess.
( 예. )
yes
( Yes. )
그런 나라들은.
such|countries
Such countries.
하여튼.
anyway
Anyway.
이제 본론을 얘기해야지요.
now|main point|we should talk about
Now I should get to the main point.
중국 감옥에서 7년 동안 갇혀 있어야 된다는 건 굉장히 가혹한 일입니다.
China|in prison|7 years|for|imprisoned|should be|being|thing|very|harsh|is
Being locked up in a Chinese prison for 7 years is a very harsh thing.
( 그러게요. )
I agree
( That's true. )
그리고 이 분이 좋은 일도 많이 한 거예요.
and|this|person|good|things|many/much|did|is
And this person has done a lot of good things.
사실 한국에 들어오기 어려운 분들을 탈북할 수 있도록 이렇게 돕는 일도 했으니까요.
actually|to Korea|entering|difficult|people|defecting|possibility|in order to|like this|helping|work|I have done
In fact, they have helped many people who find it difficult to enter Korea to defect.
( 예. )
yes
( Yes. )
7년 형을 받았지만 7년 다 살지는 않고 6년 만에 나옵니다.
7 years|sentence|received|7 years|all|serve|not|6 years|after|will be released
They received a 7-year sentence, but they won't serve the full 7 years and will be released after 6 years.
가석방으로.
on parole
Parole.
( 예. )
yes
( e.g. )
중국에서 이제 추방되서 이제 한국으로 돌아오죠.
in China|now|being expelled|now|to Korea|I will return
Now being deported from China, I will return to Korea.
대한민국 국민이니까.
Republic of Korea|I am a citizen
Because I am a citizen of the Republic of Korea.
( 예, 예, 예. )
( Yes, yes, yes. )
근데 이쯤 되니까요.
but|around this time|it becomes
But at this point.
정말 한국에 더 이상 살고 싶지 않은거예요.
really|in Korea|more|longer|living|want|not
I really don't want to live in Korea anymore.
김종배: 정나미가 다 떨어져 버린거예요.
Kim Jong-bae|Jeong-nami|all|fallen|has fallen away
Kim Jong-bae: I've completely lost my affection.
오창익: 다 떨어졌죠.
Oh Chang-ik|all|fell down
Oh Chang-ik: It's all fallen apart.
한국에 들어와서 부터 이제 대성공사에서 고문 당해...어쩌구... ( 네. )
in Korea|after entering|from|now|at Daesung Corporation|torture|I am being|something like that|yes
Since coming to Korea, I've been tortured by Daesung Construction... something like that... ( Yes. )
그리고 이걸 문제제기 했으니까 또 다시 그것 때문에 감옥 가야 돼... ( 그렇죠. )
and|this|raising the issue|having done|again|again|that|because of|prison|have to go|be|right
And because I raised this issue, I have to go to prison again because of that... ( That's right. )
애인의 고소 취하로 나오긴 했지만... ( 예. )
my girlfriend/boyfriend|lawsuit|withdrawal|came out|but|
I came out due to my partner's withdrawal of the complaint... ( Yes. )
식당도 열었지만 생활 어려워져... ( 네. )
the restaurant|opened|living|has become difficult|yes
I opened a restaurant, but life has become difficult... (Yes.)
자본주의 경제 실태에 정착하고 적응하는게 말처럼 쉬운 일이 아니잖아요.
capitalism|economy|to the reality|settling|adapting|like words|easy|matter|isn't
It's not as easy as it sounds to settle into and adapt to the realities of a capitalist economy.
식당 일 하는게 대한민국 국민도 대한민국에 살았던 사람들이 해도 열에 아홉이 망하는데...)
restaurant|working|working|South Korea|citizens|in South Korea|who lived|people|even if|out of ten|nine|fail
Even for people who have lived in South Korea, nine out of ten fail when working in the restaurant business...)
김종배: 대한민국에서 태어나고 자란 사람도 지금 뭐 가게했다가 망하는 경우가 부지기수인데...
Kim Jong-bae|in South Korea|was born|raised|person|now|something|running a store|failing|case|countless
Kim Jong-bae: Even people born and raised in South Korea often fail when they try to run a store.
(그럼요.)
of course
(Of course.)
예, 예.
Yes, yes.
그게 힘든 일이지요.
that|difficult|is a task
That's a difficult task.
특히 식당 같은 경우는 자영업 중에서 폐업률이 가장 높은 거 아닙니까.
especially|restaurant|like|case|self-employment|among|closure rate|highest|high|thing|isn't it
Especially in the case of restaurants, isn't the closure rate the highest among self-employed businesses?
오창익: 그럼요.
Oh Chang-ik|of course
Oh Chang-ik: Of course.
뭐, 통계 여러가지가 있는데 2년 내의 폐업 비율이 92%까지 올라가고 그러는데요.
what|statistics|various|there are|2 years|within|business closure|rate|up to 92%|rising|it is said
Well, there are various statistics, but the closure rate within 2 years has risen to 92%.
( 그러니까.
so
( So.
예. )
yes
Yes. )
하여튼.
anyway
Anyway.
그러니까 뭐, 좀 답답하고 일단 정나미 떨어지고 이런 거예요.
so|what|a bit|frustrating|for now|affection|falling away|this|is
So, it's a bit frustrating, and first of all, I've lost interest.
만정이 떨어진 이런 상태입니다.
the situation|fallen|this|is
This is a state where I've lost my affection.
( 예. )
yes
( Yes. )
그렇지만 뭐, 돈도 없고 뭐, 이런 상태죠.
but|well|money|doesn't have|well|this|is the situation
But, well, I have no money and I'm in this situation.
아...그래서 어디든 가고 싶어해요.
ah|so|anywhere|going|wants to
Ah... so I want to go anywhere.
한국에 왔다가.
to Korea|I came
I came to Korea.
근데 밀입국을 한 적이 있잖아요.
but|illegal immigration|have|experience|isn't there
But I have illegally entered before.
( 그렇죠. )
that's right
( That's right. )
일본 통해서 중국으로 그냥 몰래 들어갔으니까.
Japan||to China|just|secretly|I entered
They just sneaked into China through Japan.
( 아... ) 여권 발급이 제한되어있는 사람이었습니다.
ah|passport|issuance|restricted|was
( Ah... ) They were someone whose passport issuance was restricted.
( 아하, 예, 예... ) 그래서 홍진희 씨가 2011년 3월에 국가인권위원회 진정을 제출해요.
ah|yes||so|Hong Jin-hee|Ms|2011|in March|National Human Rights Commission|petition|submits
( I see, yes, yes... ) So, Ms. Hong Jin-hee submitted a petition to the National Human Rights Commission in March 2011.
( 예... ) 그러니까 내가 탈북자를 돕기 위해서 이렇게 억울한 고생을 했는데...그건 맞아요.
yes|so|I|the defector|to help|in order to|like this|unjust|hardship|I went through|that|is true
( Yes... ) So, I went through this unfair suffering to help North Korean defectors... that's true.
그런 측면이 굉장히 많죠.
that|aspect|very|many
There are many aspects to that.
그런데 여권마저 안 내주는 거는 인권 침해다.
but|even the passport|not|giving|thing|human rights|is a violation
However, not even issuing a passport is a violation of human rights.
( 네. )
yes
( Yes. )
그래서 국가인권위원회가 요 문제를 가지고 외교통상부에다가 이제 권고를 합니다.
so|the National Human Rights Commission|this|issue|regarding|to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade|now|recommendation|makes
So the National Human Rights Commission makes a recommendation to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs regarding this issue.
협조 공문 발송을 해주고 그래요.
cooperation|official document|sending|you do|is
They send a cooperation letter.
( 아... ) 여권을 줘라.
ah|passport|give me
( Ah... ) Give me the passport.
( 네. )
yes
( Yes. )
그래서 홍진희 씨 여권이 나옵니다.
so|Hong Jin-hee|Mr/Ms|passport|is coming out
So, Ms. Hong Jin-hee's passport is issued.
단수여권으로.
with a single passport
It's a single-entry passport.
( 아... ) 이걸 발급받고 곧바로 일본으로 출국했어요.
ah|this|after receiving|immediately|to Japan|I departed
(Ah...) After receiving this, I immediately departed for Japan.
( 예. )
yes
(Yes.)
그때 이제 이유는 뭐 가족이 일본에 있는데 아프다.
at that time|now|the reason|what|family|in Japan|is|is sick
At that time, the reason was that my family is in Japan and they are sick.
이런거였는데.
That was it.
( 예. )
yes
( Yes. )
아...지금 제가 다른 탈북자들한테 들으니까 홍진희 씨 일본에서 영국으로 갔다고 그러더라고요.
ah|now|I|other|to defectors|I hear|Hong Jin-hee|Mr/Ms|from Japan|to England|went|I heard
Ah... now I hear from other defectors that Hong Jin-hee went from Japan to the UK.
( 아... ) 영국에서 살고 있다고 그래요.
ah|in England|living|that|says
( Ah... ) They say they are living in the UK.
김종배: 아, 그래요?
Kim Jong-bae|ah|is that so
Kim Jong-bae: Oh, really?
탈북자 중에 영국으로 간 분들이 꽤 된다면서요?
North Korean defectors|among|to the UK|went|people|quite|are
I heard that quite a few defectors have gone to the UK?
오창익: 뭐 한 3-400명 될 거 같아요.
Oh Chang-ik|about|around|300-400 people|will be|thing|I think
Oh Chang-ik: I think there are about 300-400 people.
( 예, 예, 예. )
( Yes, yes, yes. )
그러니까 이게 정말 파란만장한 인생입니다.
so|this|really|eventful|life
So, this is really a tumultuous life.
김종배: 그러면 그 애인 조씨하고는 결국 안 맺어졌습니까?
Kim Jong-bae|then|that|girlfriend|with Jo|eventually|not|did they end up together
Kim Jong-bae: So, did you not end up with that girlfriend, Mr. Jo?
오창익: 어, 그, 그...오래 사귀지 못했습니다.
Oh Chang-ik|uh|that|that|for a long time|date|couldn't
Oh Chang-ik: Uh, well, we... didn't date for long.
( 아, 그래요? )
ah|is that so
( Oh, really? )
아, 왜냐면 또 상처가 남잖아요.
ah|because|again|wound|remains
Ah, because it leaves a scar.
( 그렇죠. )
that's right
( That's right. )
그리고 그 조씨 입장에서도 얼마나 미안합니까.
and|that|Mr Jo|from the perspective|how|sorry
And from Mr. Jo's perspective, how sorry must he feel.
이 분들은, 그러니까 홍진희 씨가 한국에 들어오기 전부터 사귄거예요.
this|people|so|Hong Jin-hee|Ms|to Korea|coming in|before|were dating
These people, that is, they were dating before Hong Jin-hee came to Korea.
중국 루트로 이렇게 탈북하다가 마지막에 홍콩에 있었는데 ( 예. )
China|route|like this|defecting|at the end|in Hong Kong|was|
They escaped North Korea through a route in China and ended up in Hong Kong.
이 분이 항공사 여승무원이었어요.
this|person|airline|was a flight attendant
This person was a flight attendant.
( 어, 예... ) 그래서 홍콩에 있다가 만나게 된거예요.
oh|yes|so|in Hong Kong|while|we meet|happened
(Uh, yes...) So they met while in Hong Kong.
( 아... ) 그러니까 좀 깊은 인연인거죠.
ah|so|somewhat|deep|is a relationship
( Ah... ) So it's a somewhat deep connection.
대한민국에 들어오기 전부터.
to South Korea|entering|before
Even before coming to South Korea.
그리고 홍콩에 이제 국적도 없고 탈북자이고 대한민국에 못 들어온 신세로 있는 홍진희 씨 입장에서는 정말 그, 고마운 사람이었고 이랬는데.
and|in Hong Kong|now|nationality|does not have|being a defector|to South Korea|cannot|enter|in a situation|being|Hong Jin-hee|Ms|from the perspective|really|that|grateful|person|was
And from the perspective of Hong Jin-hee, who now has no nationality in Hong Kong and is a defector unable to enter South Korea, that person was really, you know, someone to be grateful for.
국정원이 개입하면서 사랑하는 연인들 사이도 ( 상처받은 거죠... ) 깨버린 겁니다.
the National Intelligence Service|intervening|loving|couples|between|hurt|right|shattered|thing
But with the National Intelligence Service's involvement, even the loving relationship between them was ( hurt... ) broken.
김종배: 가족은 어떻게 됐어요?
Kim Jong-bae|family|how|are you
Kim Jong-bae: How is your family?
오창익: 아, 가족들도 지금 하나는 뭐, 한국에 있고 하나는 영국에 있고 뭐 이런 얘기를 들었는데요.
Oh Chang-ik|ah|family also|now|one|what|in Korea|is|one|in England|is|what|this|story|I heard
Oh Chang-ik: Ah, I heard that one is in Korea and one is in the UK.
( 예. )
yes
( Yes. )
이게 다 풍문으로 들은 얘깁니다.
this|all|by rumor|heard|story
This is all hearsay.
( 확인이 안 된거네요. )
confirmation|not|has been
( It hasn't been confirmed. )
네.
yes
Yes.
홍진희 씨가 영국에 있다는 건 여러 명이 동시에 얘기하니까 아마 사실인 것 같은데요.
Hong Jin-hee|Mr/Ms|in the UK|being|fact|several|people|simultaneously|talking|probably|true|thing|seems
Since several people are saying that Hong Jin-hee is in the UK, it seems to be true.
( 예. )
yes
( Yes. )
확실한건 대한민국엔 없습니다.
the certain thing|in South Korea|does not exist
There is nothing certain in South Korea.
( 예. )
yes
( e.g. )
그, 이, 파란만장한 삶이잖아요.
that|this|tumultuous|life
It's a tumultuous life.
조선민주주의인민공화국에 태어나서 중국을 떠돌다가 홍콩을 통해서 대한민국에 들어왔다가.
Democratic People's Republic of Korea|was born|China|wandering|through Hong Kong|through|to South Korea|I entered
Born in the Democratic People's Republic of Korea, wandering through China, and then entering South Korea through Hong Kong.
대한민국에서 인권 침해를 당할 만큼 당하고 교도소에, 구치소에도 갔다가 다시 나와서 ( 참... ) 일본갔다가 중국가서 또 중국에서 6년 동안 꼬박 6년이에요.
in South Korea|human rights|violation|being|to the extent|suffering|in prison|in detention center|went|again|coming out|really|went to Japan|going to China|again|in China|6 years|for|continuously|it was 6 years
I have suffered human rights violations in South Korea, went to prison and detention centers, then came out (really...) went to Japan, then to China, and spent a full 6 years in China.
( 네. )
(Yes.)
교도소에, 감옥에 갇혀있다가 다시 한국에 왔다 일본 갔다가 이제 드디어 영국까지 간... ( 네. )
in prison|jail|was confined|again|to Korea|I came|Japan|after going|now|finally|to England|I went|yes
After being locked up in prison, I came back to Korea, went to Japan, and finally made it to England... (Yes.)
파란만장이란 말이 딱 들어맞는 경우인데요.
turbulent|word|exactly|fitting|case
It's a perfect example of a tumultuous journey.
홍진희 씨의 삶은 또 앞으로 어떻게 될지.
Hong Jin-hee|'s|life|also|in the future|how|will be
How will Hong Jin-hee's life be in the future?
( 그렇죠. )
that's right
( That's right. )
이런게 사실 대한민국이, 이 대한민국에 들어오고 있는 탈북자들을 어떻게 대해야 되는지... 탈북자 정책이라는 것이 정말 제대로 돌아가고 있는지...뭐, 이런 생각이 들고요.
this|actually|South Korea|this|to South Korea|coming in|that are|defectors|how|should|be treated|defector|policy|thing|really|properly|functioning|is|well|such|thought|
This makes me think about how South Korea should treat the defectors coming into this country... whether the defector policy is really functioning properly... well, these are the thoughts I have.
( 어, 참... ) 뭐, 이, 홍진희 씨의 케이스를 생각한건.
oh|really|well|this|Hong Jin-hee|person's|case|I was thinking about
( Uh, really... ) Well, I thought about the case of Hong Jin-hee.
최근에 이제 간첩조작사건의 유우성 씨의 경우에도.
recently|now|of the spy fabrication case|Yoo Woosung|Mr|in the case
Recently, in the case of Yoo Woosung, who was involved in the spy fabrication incident.
( 그렇죠. )
that's right
( That's right. )
아...유우성 씨와 그 일가는 앞으로 어떻게 되는건지... ( 그러게요. )
ah|Yoo Seong|with Mr|that|family|in the future|how|will be|I wonder
Ah... what will happen to Yoo Woosung and his family in the future... ( Indeed. )
저는 그, 가장 답답한 것 중에 하나가요.
I|that|most|frustrating|thing|among|is one
I find that to be one of the most frustrating things.
유우성 씨가 이제 무죄를 선고받을 거예요.
Yoo Seong|Mr|now|innocent|will be sentenced|is
Mr. Yoo Seong will now be acquitted.
조작이니까 무죄지요.
because it is fabricated|is innocent
It's an acquittal because it's fabricated.
당연히.
of course
Of course.
무죄를 선고받은 다음에 국가정보원이 또 비열한 보복을 해가지고 유우성 씨를 중국으로 추방할 가능성이 저는 있을 것 같아요.
innocent|was sentenced|after|National Intelligence Service|again|vile|retaliation|by|Yoo Woosung|Mr|to China|deportation|possibility|I|be|thing|think
I think there is a possibility that after being acquitted, the National Intelligence Service will take a cowardly revenge and deport Mr. Yoo Seong to China.
김종배: 아니, 이미 언론 지면에 추방 얘기가 나오던데요.
Kim Jong-bae|no|already|media|in the press|expulsion|talk|was coming out
Kim Jong-bae: No, the talk of expulsion is already coming out in the media.
오창익: 그러니까요.
Oh Chang-ik|that's right
Oh Chang-ik: That's right.
슬슬 흘리잖아요.
slowly|is flowing
They're slowly leaking it.
( 예, 예. )
yes|yes
( Yes, yes. )
이건 막아야 됩니다.
this|must be stopped|be
This must be blocked.
( 예. )
yes
( e.g. )
그렇죠?
right
Right?
막아야 되지 않습니까?
should block||shouldn't
Shouldn't it be blocked?
( 예. )
yes
( e.g. )
그렇게 고생했으면 ( 예. )
like that|if you suffered|
If you've worked that hard ( e.g. )
우리가 잘 모셔야죠.
we|well|should take care of
we should take good care of you.
( 아... ) 그래서 유우성 씨의 삶은 또 앞으로 어떻게 될건지에 대한 고민이 있고요.
ah|so|Yoo Seong|Mr|life|also|in the future|how|will be|about|concern|there is
( Ah... ) So, there are also concerns about how Yoo Seong's life will be in the future.
이 방송 마무리하면서 ( 예. )
this|broadcast|while wrapping up|
As we wrap up this broadcast (e.g.)
하나만 더 말씀드리고 싶은데.
one|more|I want to tell you|I would like to
I want to mention one more thing.
또 탈북자 간첩 사건이 터졌어요.
again|defector|spy|incident|occurred
Another North Korean defector spy incident has occurred.
( 네. )
yes
(Yes.)
오늘자 신문에 보도가 되는 겁니다.
today's|in the newspaper|report|being|is
This will be reported in today's newspaper.
( 예. )
yes
( Yes. )
40세 홍씨라는 분인데... ( 네. )
40 years old|named Hong|person|
It's about a 40-year-old person named Hong... ( Yes. )
뭐, 진작에 들어와가지고 2008년에 "일반탈북자", 이건 따옴표 써야되겠죠?
what|earlier|having come in|in 2008|general defector|this|quotation marks|should be used
Well, they came in earlier and in 2008 they were classified as a "general defector", I guess we should use quotation marks for that?
( 예. )
yes
( e.g. )
일반탈북자로 들어왔다, 들어왔다는 거예요.
as a regular defector|came in|that came in|is
They came in as ordinary defectors, that's what I'm saying.
위장해서.
disguising
They disguised themselves.
( 네. )
( Yes. )
국내로 잠입한 북한보위부 요원이라는 거예요.
into the country|infiltrated|North Korean Security Agency|agent|
It is said that they are an agent of the North Korean Security Agency who infiltrated the country.
( 예. )
yes
( Yes. )
국가정보원이 수사했고 검찰이 기소했습니다.
|investigated|the prosecution|indicted
The National Intelligence Service investigated and the prosecution indicted.
( 예. )
yes
( Yes. )
그러니까 맞겠죠?
so|it would be correct
So that would be right?
( 예.
yes
( Yes.
아니. )
no
No. )
아, 그러니까 대답하신 거예요?
ah|so|you answered|is
Ah, so you were answering?
김종배: 아…맞겠냐고요?
Kim Jong-bae|ah|are you sure
Kim Jong-bae: Ah... are you sure?
잘 모르겠죠.
well|don't know
I don't know.
(모르죠, 모르죠.
I don't know|I don't know
(I don't know, I don't know.
바로 그거예요.)
right|that
That's exactly it.)
어떻게 알아요 그거를.
how|do you know|that
How do you know that?
오창익: 그러니까 국가정보원이 간첩 여부를 수사했고 검찰에서 기소를 한 거예요.
Oh Chang-ik|so|the National Intelligence Service|spy|whether|investigated|by the prosecution|indictment|was|is
Oh Chang-ik: So the National Intelligence Service investigated whether he was a spy and the prosecution indicted him.
그래서 언론 보도가 된건데.
so|media|report|has been
That's why it was reported in the media.
김종배: 아니 유우성 씨도 똑같은 과정을 겪었는데...
Kim Jong-bae|no|Yoo Seong|Mr|same|process|went through
Kim Jong-bae: But Mr. Yoo Seong also went through the same process...
오창익: 바로 그렇습니다.
Oh Chang-ik|exactly|is correct
Oh Chang-ik: That's exactly right.
그러니까 맞겠지.
so|it must be right
So it must be correct.
간첩이겠지.
is a spy
It must be a spy.
라는 생각이 안드는 거예요.
that|thought|doesn't come|to me
That's not the thought that comes to mind.
( 흐, 예. )
flowing|yes
( Huh, yes. )
야, 저것도 좀 살펴봐야 되는거 아니야?
hey|that too|a little|should look into|be|not
Hey, shouldn't we take a look at that too?
민변 변호사들한테 좀 얘기해봐야 되는거 아닌가.
Minbyun|to the lawyers|a bit|should talk|should|shouldn't
Shouldn't we talk to the lawyers from the Minbyun?
라는 생각이 먼저 드는 거예요.
that|thought|first|comes|is
That's the first thought that comes to mind.
김종배: 아니 저도 여기서 좀 한마디 좀 하고 싶은데.
Kim Jong-bae|no|I also|here|a little|one word|a little|to say|want to
Kim Jong-bae: No, I also want to say a word here.
우리가 대공, 정말 중요하죠.
we|great|really|is important
National defense is really important.
방첩 중요하고.
counterintelligence|is important
Counterintelligence is important.
그걸 누가, 대한민국 국민 중에 그걸 부정할 사람이 누가 있겠어요.
that|who|Republic of Korea|citizen|among|that|deny|person|who|would be
Who among the citizens of the Republic of Korea would deny that?
(네.)
(Yes.)
그런데 바로 그런 것들을 강화시키고 진작시키는게 뭐냐면 진짜 제대로 간첩 사건 수사하는 거예요.
but|right|such|things|strengthening|promoting|what|really|properly|spy|case|investigating|is
But what really strengthens and promotes those things is properly investigating espionage cases.
(네.
yes
(Yes.
그렇죠.)
that's right
That's right.)
억울하게 조작해버리고 이게 지금 언론에 대서특필되고 나라를 지금 뭐 들었다놨다 해버리면 ( 네. )
unfairly|manipulating|this|now|in the media|being extensively covered|the country|now|what|being tossed around|if it happens|
It's unfairly manipulated, and if this is now being highlighted in the media and the country is being turned upside down (yes.)
진짜 간첩 사건을 밝혀낸다고 국민들이 아, 믿겠냐는 거죠.
real|spy|case|revealing|the people|ah|would believe|thing
Will the public really believe that a real spy case has been uncovered?
(안 믿죠.
not|believe
(They won't believe it.
제가 안 믿겨져요.)
I|not|believe
I can't believe it.)
거기서 방첩에 구멍이 뚫리는 거잖아요.
there|in the spy|hole|is drilled|isn't it
That's where the hole in counterintelligence is.
오창익: 그렇죠.
Oh Chang-ik|that's right
Oh Chang-ik: That's right.
그게, 그러니까 중요한게 이제 신뢰잖아요.
that|so|important thing|now|is trust
The important thing is trust.
( 그럼요, 그럼요. )
of course|yes
( Of course, of course. )
그, 국가정보원 검찰 간첩조작사건의 가장 큰 문제점은 한 개인을 파괴했다는 것도 주.
that|National Intelligence Service|prosecution|of the espionage fabrication case|biggest|large|issue|one|individual|was destroyed|also|fact
The biggest problem with the National Intelligence Service's prosecution of the espionage case is that it destroyed an individual.
중요하지만 국가기관 전반의 신뢰가 정말 바닥에 떨어졌다라는 거예요.
important but|national institutions|overall|trust|really|to the bottom|has fallen|
It's important, but the trust in the entire national institution has really hit rock bottom.
( 예, 예. )
yes|yes
( Yes, yes. )
지난번에도 말씀드렸지만 정권은 5년에 불과한데 ( 네. )
last time|I told you|the regime|for 5 years|is only|
As I mentioned last time, the regime lasts only five years ( Yes. )
검찰청 이런거는 한 60년 이상 쭉 가잖아요.
prosecution office|like this|about|60 years|more than|continuously|lasts
The prosecutor's office has been around for over 60 years.
( 네. )
yes
( Yes. )
국가가 훨씬 더 길잖아요.
the country|much|more|is longer
The state has been around for much longer.
( 네. )
( Yes. )
국가정보원을 개혁하든 어떻든 간에 국가에 정보기관이 있어야 되는거 아닙니까.
the National Intelligence Service|whether to reform|regardless of|in the case of|to the state|intelligence agency|should be|being|isn't it
Whether we reform the National Intelligence Service or not, doesn't the country need to have an intelligence agency?
( 예, 예. )
yes|yes
( Yes, yes. )
수명이 좀 더 길어요.
lifespan|a bit|more|is longer
Its lifespan is a bit longer.
더더군다나 그 국가에 뿌리박고 살고 있는 사람들은 정말 역사를 같이 하는거 아닙니까.
moreover|that|to the country|rooted|living|in|people|really|history|together|sharing|not
Moreover, the people who are rooted in that country are truly sharing history, aren't they?
( 그럼요. )
of course
( Of course. )
대한민국이라는 60 몇 년 밖에 안되는데 여기 살고 있는 사람들의 삶은 장구하잖아요.
the Republic of Korea|few|years|only|is not|here|living|in|people's|life|is long-lasting
South Korea has only been around for about 60 years, but the lives of the people living here are long.
국가의 수명과 비교도 안 될만큼 긴 시간이잖아요.
the country's|lifespan|even compared to|not|to the extent of|long|time
It's a time that is incomparably longer than the lifespan of the nation.
( 예. )
yes
( Yes. )
그런 상황에서 이 문제를 봤으면 좋겠습니다.
that|in situation|this|problem|you see|would be good
I hope you look at this issue in that situation.
우리가 지금, 우리 국가가 지금 도대체 어떤 일을 하고 있는지.
we|now|our|country||exactly|what|work|doing|is
What exactly is our country doing right now?
( 예. )
yes
( For example. )
대한민국에 들어왔다가 다시 북한으로 가는 탈북자들이 최근 생기기 시작했고 대한민국이 아니라 영국이나 어디든 일본이든 다른 나라로 가고 싶어하는 탈북자들도 부쩍 늘어나고 있어요.
South Korea|came in|again|to North Korea|going|defectors|recently|emerging|started|South Korea|not|to the UK|anywhere|to Japan|other|to a country|going|wanting|defectors also|noticeably|increasing|are
Recently, there have been defectors who have come to South Korea and then gone back to North Korea, and there is also a noticeable increase in defectors who want to go to other countries like the UK or Japan instead of South Korea.
김종배: 제가 좀 된거 같은데...탈북자가 다시 북으로...
Kim Jong-bae|I|a bit|old|seems|defector|again|to the North
Kim Jong-bae: I think it's been a while... defectors going back to the North...
(네.)
(Yes.)
역으로 돌아가서 (여러 명 있습니다.)
backwards|returning|several|people|are
Going back in reverse (there are several people.)
북한 TV에 인터뷰하는게 우리 국내 뉴스에 나오더군요.
North Korea|on TV|interview|our|domestic|news|comes out
I saw an interview on North Korean TV that appeared in our domestic news.
(네, 왕왕 나옵니다.)
yes|often|comes out
(Yes, it often comes up.)
그러면서 이제 남한 욕하고 이러는거.
while|now|South Korea|insulting|doing this
And then they start insulting South Korea.
오창익: 네.
Oh Chang-ik|yes
Oh Chang-ik: Yes.
남한 지옥이었다.
South Korea|was hell
South Korea was hell.
( 네. )
( Yes. )
뭐, 뭐...속아서 갔다.
what||being deceived|went
Well, I was tricked into going.
이런 얘긴데.
this|conversation
That's the story.
( 예. )
yes
( Yes. )
뭐, 맞는 얘기도 있고 틀린 얘기도 있겠죠.
what|correct|story|is|wrong|story|there is
Well, there are both correct and incorrect statements.
중요한 얘기는 뭐냐하면 지금 우리가 통일 대박 얘기까지 하시는데... ( 네. )
important|conversation|what it is|now|we|unification|big success|conversation|you are having|
The important thing is that while we are talking about a great unification... (Yes.)
통일 정말 대박일지 쪽박일지 모르지만 이런 상황에서 국내에 들어와 있는 3만 명도 안되는 탈북자들도 제대로 우리가 모시지 못하고 제대로 같이 함께 살지 못하고.
unification|really|will be a big success|will be a failure|I don't know|this|in situation|in the country|coming in|existing|30000|people|not more than|North Korean defectors|properly|we|serve|unable to||together|with|live|unable to
I don't know if unification will be a great success or a disaster, but in this situation, we can't even properly take care of the less than 30,000 defectors who are currently in the country and we can't live together with them.
탈북자들이 지금 이 순간에도 자기가 탈북자라고 얘기하지 않고 중국 동포요, 조선족이요.
the defectors|now|this|moment|they|as a defector|talking|not|Chinese|compatriots|Joseonjok
Even at this moment, defectors are not identifying themselves as defectors but as Chinese compatriots or Joseonjok.
라고 말하게 하는 이런 상황 속에서 ( 예. )
that|to speak|making|this|situation|in|example
In a situation like this that makes you say so (e.g.)
무슨 통일 대박입니까.
what|unification|is a big deal
What kind of unification jackpot is this?
우리 내부부터 들여다 봐야죠.
we|from within|look|should
We need to look within ourselves first.
김종배: 그렇죠.
Kim Jong-bae|that's right
Kim Jong-bae: That's right.
네.
yes
Yes.
알겠습니다.
I understand
Understood.
자, 오늘 여기까지 진행을 하죠.
let's|today|up to here|progress|shall we
Alright, let's proceed up to here for today.
수고하셨습니다.
thank you for your hard work
Thank you for your hard work.
오창익: 네.
Oh Chang-ik|yes
Oh Chang-ik: Yes.
고맙습니다.
thank you
Thank you.
시사통의 편집 위원이 되어주세요.
current affairs|editing|committee member|please become
Please become an editorial member of Sisa Tong.
시사통은 애청자 여러분의 참여로 만들어집니다.
the current affairs program|loyal listener|your|participation|is created
Sisa Tong is created with the participation of our loyal listeners.
시사통 홈페이지 시사통.net에 들어오셔서 여러분의 의견을 남겨주세요.
SisaTong|homepage|||come in|your|opinion|please leave
Please visit the SisaTong website at sisaTong.net and leave your opinions.
네.
Yes.
저희 시사통에서 월요일과 수요일 <인생 현장>과 <폭력을 넘어서> 이 두 코너를 통해서 같은 대한민국을 살아가는 사람들이 있는데 정말로 기가막힌 사연을 갖고 있는 분들.
our|in the current affairs program|on Monday|Wednesday|<Life|||<Violence|Beyond|these|two|corners||same|South Korea|living|people|there are|truly|astonishing|stories|having|with|individuals
At SisaTong, we have two segments on Mondays and Wednesdays, <Life on the Scene> and <Beyond Violence>, where we introduce people living in the same South Korea who have truly astonishing stories.
이런 분들을 소개를 해드리고 있지 않습니까.
these|people|introduction|I am giving|to|not
We are introducing such individuals, aren't we?
오늘 또 한 분을 소개를 해드렸는데요.
today|again|one|person|introduction|I introduced
Today, I introduced another person.
이런 방송이 나가고 나면 댓글에 이런 댓글들이 많이 달립니다.
this|broadcast|goes out|when|in the comments|these|comments|many|are posted
After this broadcast airs, many comments like these will be posted.
정말 참 답답하다.
really|very|frustrating
It's really frustrating.
분노가 치밀어 오른다.
anger|rising|rises
Anger rises.
우리가 사는 곳이 이런 곳밖에 안되는 것이냐.
we|living|place|like this|only place|not|is
Is this the only place we can live?
이런 댓글들이 참 많이 올라옵니다.
these|comments|really|many|are posted
There are indeed many comments like this.
이런걸 보다 보면 한편으로는 참 죄송하기도 합니다.
this|seeing|if|on one hand|truly|feeling sorry|I am
Seeing these makes me feel quite sorry.
왜냐면 이 팍팍한 살림살이에 청량제가 될 수 있는 이런 정보, 내용, 컨텐츠를 공급을 해야되는 것이 맞을 것 같은데...오히려 더, 아, 화를 키우고 스트레스를 키우는 그런 내용만 전해드리는게 아닌가 싶은 생각도 좀 없지 않아 있기는 합니다만은 그래도 우리가 사는 땅이 어떤 땅인지를 정확히 알아야 무엇부터 고쳐나갈 수 있을까.
because|this|tough|living situation|refreshing|can be|possibility|existing|such|information|content|content|supply|should|thing|right|thing|seems|rather|more|ah|anger|increasing|stress|increasing|such|only content|being delivered|not|wanting|thought|a bit|not|not|existing||still|we|living|land|what|land|accurately|should know|from what|fixing|possibility|
Because I think we should provide information, content, and materials that can serve as a refreshing change in this tough living situation... but rather, I sometimes wonder if we are only delivering content that increases anger and stress.
이것을 또 생각해볼 수 있지 않겠습니까.
this|again|think about|possibility|is|not
Can't we think about this again?
그런 생각으로 이 방송 내용을 꾸며드린다는 점을 좀 이해를 해주시기 바라고요.
that|thought|this|broadcast|content|is being arranged||a bit|understanding|please|I hope
I hope you can understand that we are presenting this broadcast content with that thought in mind.
뭐, 기회를 봐서 정말로 밝고 진취적인 그런 내용들, 승리한 경우 이런 것들도 한 번 저희가 꾸며보도록 하겠습니다.
what|opportunity|seeing|really|bright|progressive|such|contents|victorious|case|these|things|one|time|we|will decorate|will
Well, we will try to present really bright and progressive content, such as cases of victory, when the opportunity arises.
자, 오늘 방송은 여기서 마무리 하도록 하겠습니다.
now|today|broadcast|here|concluding|in a manner|I will
Alright, we will conclude today's broadcast here.
여러분, 고맙습니다.
everyone|thank you
Thank you, everyone.
SENT_CWT:AO6BvvLW=11.98 PAR_TRANS:gpt-4o-mini=11.52
en:AO6BvvLW
openai.2025-02-07
ai_request(all=1607 err=0.00%) translation(all=1285 err=0.08%) cwt(all=6705 err=4.58%)