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Steve's Cafe, Critical Thinking and Dialoguing

Critical Thinking and Dialoguing

Hi there, Steve Kaufmann here at Steve's Café.

Remember, if you don't like me talking about things political and want me to talk about language learning, go to my Lingo Steve channel. Otherwise, this is where I rant on whatever catches my fancy. Today, I'm going to talk about critical thinking and dialoguing, the reason? I saw a tweet. I follow different people on my Twitter account. I follow educators and they were taking about the importance of teaching critical thinking and there's another concept that I came across here in Vancouver called ‘dialoguing'. Simon Fraser University has a Center for Dialoguing where they teach people how to dialogue, how to communicate with respect, respecting diversity and all of these things. There's something within me that objects to both these terms.

I object to the idea that teachers are going to tell people how to think and how to communicate. My experience with critical thinking was while I was on a list serve, which is like a forum of English teachers. When they talked about critical thinking, it was mostly about how they could get their ESL students (English language students) from Honduras, Nicaragua or Afghanistan to challenge the system more. In other words, to recognize that there were powered relationships and they were being abused in some way or whatever. One guy even insisted that all of his students basically lobby the state government -- this was in the States in his case – for more funding for English language instruction for immigrants. Again, it's this idea of teachers directing the minds of students rather than just teaching them English. It wasn't obvious to me that say an immigrant from Honduras who undoubtedly has had to deal with a lot of situations in her/his country would benefit by being taught how to think by some English teacher.

Also, there is often this contrast between sort of Western thought, which is supposed to be more based on challenging things and being call it more logical, whereas the Asians – Chinese, Japanese, Koreans – are meant to be more group-oriented, more go with the flow, don't challenge things logically. I don't believe that really. I think people tend to think and what they think and how they think is a function, to some extent, of what they know and also of their identity, what's important to them. If people were really so rational in Western countries, for example in the United States, we wouldn't have such a large amount of support for Donald Trump.

Obviously, a certain group of people, regardless of how stupid or however many ignorant, impolite, impetuous and ridiculous things he says, they continue to support him. It's not critical thinking that's at play here, it's their identity. It's a bit like in Russia, where the government basically is running their economy into the ground engaged in very expensive call them geopolitical adventures and spending a fortune on propaganda when they have a declining quality of health care, schooling, you name it, yet at a level in their identity they identity with this.

So while they understand that a small number of people are making out like bandits while there is a lack of money for government pensions, hospitals and so forth it doesn't matter. Critical thinking is not what matters the most. In that sense, to imply that somehow an English teacher has a unique ability to teach critical thinking to a student of English I don't buy.

In fact, critical thinking means you must have the same attitude, this sort of critical attitude towards problems as I have. If the student has a different attitude probably the critical thinking teacher will say no, that's not right. You're not thinking critically because you don't agree with me. Similarly with dialoguing, I went to their website Simon Fraser University Center for Dialoguing and there's this thing about finding consensus, being respectful and harmony in all of our communications.

Which sounds like a good idea, but again I don't like that. If I don't agree with you, I'm going to tell you and people can disagree with me. Although, some people's comments here are usually along the lines of you stupid, old, white, conservative idiot, whatever. I get some of those. I wouldn't say usually, but you get some of those. If I criticize Justin Trudeau someone will say, oh, you must hate him. I don't hate him, I just don't happen to like his policies. I'm not carried away by Justin Trudeau, but I don't hate him personally. I'd probably like him. If he came to dinner we'd have a great time, probably. Anyway, dialoguing, the idea is that we're going to find this common ground.

For whatever reason, a friend of mine and I were going to this function organized by Simon Fraser University where we're going to dialogue about stuff. So they organized us around tables and then this student of this Center for Dialoguing explained to us ordinary citizens that now we must learn to dialogue. It's this new, better, more productive way of communicating, respect, harmony and all the rest of it. So we sat around a table and were engaged in this exercise of writing down random thoughts in response to questions and stuff like that and then the student who was sort of chairing our little table would summarize. We were talking about multiculturalism and just about everybody at our table, most of whom were immigrants, said they really want for themselves and their children to assimilate into the Canadian mainstream.

That's what they all said. But the student there, she wrote down we all think it's really valuable that in Canada we have multiculturalism which respects diversity and all this stuff. Which is fine to have as an opinion, but that was not the summary of the views at our table. Subsequently, at lunch I sat down with a student who had harangued us on the importance of harmony, respectful communication and dialoguing and so we were talking about multiculturalism.

Now, I have the view that whatever people do privately, whatever religion they profess privately, whatever languages they're interested in privately, whether it be the language or culture of their heritage call it or whether it be some other culture or language that's entirely up to them, but in a country like Canada with so many immigrants we shouldn't be encouraging people to be different. We're not going to force them to assimilate, but the things we have in common -- that includes a lot of things that were there before the immigrants arrived, the way we communicate, our languages, our sports, different customs -- we should make as attractive as possible so that immigrants actually want to assimilate.

Not force them to assimilate, but assimilate. As has been the case with my family and with many of the people I know, they're just happy to be Canadian. So I more or less explained this to him and this guy when he heard that sort of attacks me.

You bigot! How can you say that, blah, blah, blah? Here's a guy who probably speaks one language, has a very limited knowledge of the world and of history, but he's been given this very small amount of ideology about diversity and multiculturalism, which is fine. He can have his point of view, but having lectured us on dialoguing to then jump at me with accusations of being a bigot to me again demonstrates that dialoguing, in effect, is a code word for saying we must all agree with the established politically-correct position. In fact, there was a student at that Center for Dialoguing who also didn't like the sort of group think, forced think, politically- correct atmosphere and so I said I'll come up and give a talk.

When I was up there talking to the students it was obvious that the majority of the students, I would say 60% of the student, even more so the professor, were not about respect for other people's points of view, but imposing the correct point of view. So when I hear the words critical thinking and dialoguing I tend to be a little skeptical. Thank you for listening, bye for now.

Critical Thinking and Dialoguing |||対話 Kritisches Denken und Dialogführung Pensamiento crítico y diálogo Pensée critique et dialogue Pensiero critico e dialogo クリティカルシンキングとダイアローグ Krytyczne myślenie i dialog Pensamento crítico e diálogo Критическое мышление и диалог Eleştirel Düşünme ve Diyalog Kurma Критичне мислення та діалог 批判性思维和对话 批判性思考和對話

Hi there, Steve Kaufmann here at Steve’s Café.

Remember, if you don’t like me talking about things political and want me to talk about language learning, go to my Lingo Steve channel. Otherwise, this is where I rant on whatever catches my fancy. |||||愚痴||||| Por lo demás, aquí despotrico de lo que me apetece. Sinon, c'est ici que je m'exprime sur tout ce qui me passe par la tête. Caso contrário, é aqui que eu comento o que me apetece. Today, I’m going to talk about critical thinking and dialoguing, the reason? I saw a tweet. |||ツイートを見た J'ai vu un tweet. I follow different people on my Twitter account. I follow educators and they were taking about the importance of teaching critical thinking and there’s another concept that I came across here in Vancouver called ‘dialoguing'. Je suis des éducateurs et ils parlent de l'importance d'enseigner la pensée critique et il y a un autre concept que j'ai découvert ici à Vancouver et qui s'appelle le "dialogue". Simon Fraser University has a Center for Dialoguing where they teach people how to dialogue, how to communicate with respect, respecting diversity and all of these things. ||||||||||||the manner in which||conversation skills|||||||||||| |||||||||||||||||||||多様性||||| There’s something within me that objects to both these terms. |||||反対するもの|||| Il y a quelque chose en moi qui s'oppose à ces deux termes. 我内心深处对这两个术语有些反对。

I object to the idea that teachers are going to tell people how to think and how to communicate. |反対する||||||||||||||||| My experience with critical thinking was while I was on a list serve, which is like a forum of English teachers. When they talked about critical thinking, it was mostly about how they could get their ESL students (English language students) from Honduras, Nicaragua or Afghanistan to challenge the system more. |||||||||||||||||||||ホンジュラス|||||||| Lorsqu'ils parlaient de pensée critique, ils cherchaient surtout à savoir comment amener leurs étudiants ESL (English language students) du Honduras, du Nicaragua ou d'Afghanistan à remettre davantage le système en question. In other words, to recognize that there were powered relationships and they were being abused in some way or whatever. ||||||||権力のある||||||虐待された||||| One guy even insisted that all of his students basically lobby the state government -- this was in the States in his case – for more funding for English language instruction for immigrants. ||||||||||ロビー活動||||||||||||||資金援助|||||| L'un d'entre eux a même insisté pour que tous ses étudiants fassent pression sur le gouvernement de l'État - dans son cas, il s'agissait des États-Unis - afin d'obtenir davantage de fonds pour l'enseignement de l'anglais aux immigrés. Again, it’s this idea of teachers directing the minds of students rather than just teaching them English. Encore une fois, il s'agit de l'idée que les enseignants dirigent l'esprit des élèves plutôt que de leur enseigner simplement l'anglais. It wasn’t obvious to me that say an immigrant from Honduras who undoubtedly has had to deal with a lot of situations in her/his country would benefit by being taught how to think by some English teacher. Il n'était pas évident pour moi qu'un immigrant du Honduras, par exemple, qui a sans aucun doute dû faire face à de nombreuses situations dans son pays, aurait intérêt à ce qu'un professeur d'anglais lui apprenne à penser.

Also, there is often this contrast between sort of Western thought, which is supposed to be more based on challenging things and being call it more logical, whereas the Asians – Chinese, Japanese, Koreans – are meant to be more group-oriented, more go with the flow, don’t challenge things logically. ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||論理的に Par ailleurs, il existe souvent un contraste entre la pensée occidentale, qui est censée être davantage axée sur la remise en question et la logique, et la pensée asiatique (chinoise, japonaise, coréenne), qui est davantage axée sur le groupe, qui suit le courant et ne remet pas les choses en question de manière logique. I don’t believe that really. Je ne le crois pas vraiment. I think people tend to think and what they think and how they think is a function, to some extent, of what they know and also of their identity, what’s important to them. Je pense que les gens ont tendance à penser et que ce qu'ils pensent et comment ils pensent est fonction, dans une certaine mesure, de ce qu'ils savent et aussi de leur identité, de ce qui est important pour eux. If people were really so rational in Western countries, for example in the United States, we wouldn’t have such a large amount of support for Donald Trump. |||||合理的||||||||||||||||||||| Si les gens étaient vraiment aussi rationnels dans les pays occidentaux, par exemple aux États-Unis, nous n'aurions pas un soutien aussi important pour Donald Trump.

Obviously, a certain group of people, regardless of how stupid or however many ignorant, impolite, impetuous and ridiculous things he says, they continue to support him. ||||||bez ohľadu na|||||||||unáhlený|||||||||| |||||||||||||uninformed||rash||absurd|||||||| |||||||||||||無知||衝動的な|||||||||| It’s not critical thinking that’s at play here, it’s their identity. Ce n'est pas la pensée critique qui est en jeu ici, c'est leur identité. It’s a bit like in Russia, where the government basically is running their economy into the ground engaged in very expensive call them geopolitical adventures and spending a fortune on propaganda when they have a declining quality of health care, schooling, you name it, yet at a level in their identity they identity with this. |||||||||||||||||||||||地政学的|||||||宣伝活動|||||衰退する|||||教育|||||||||||||| C'est un peu comme en Russie, où le gouvernement mène l'économie par le bout du nez, s'engage dans des aventures géopolitiques très coûteuses et dépense une fortune en propagande, alors que la qualité des soins de santé, de l'enseignement, etc. est en baisse, et pourtant, à un certain niveau de leur identité, ils s'identifient à cela.

So while they understand that a small number of people are making out like bandits while there is a lack of money for government pensions, hospitals and so forth it doesn’t matter. |||||||||||profiting, benefiting, exploiting|||||||||||||||||||| ||||||||||||||強盗||||||||||年金|病院|||||| Critical thinking is not what matters the most. essential||||||| L'esprit critique n'est pas ce qui compte le plus. In that sense, to imply that somehow an English teacher has a unique ability to teach critical thinking to a student of English I don’t buy. ||||暗示する||||||||||||||||||||| En ce sens, je ne crois pas qu'un professeur d'anglais ait la capacité unique d'enseigner la pensée critique à un étudiant en anglais.

In fact, critical thinking means you must have the same attitude, this sort of critical attitude towards problems as I have. En fait, la pensée critique signifie que vous devez avoir la même attitude, cette sorte d'attitude critique face aux problèmes que j'ai. If the student has a different attitude probably the critical thinking teacher will say no, that’s not right. Si l'élève a une attitude différente, l'enseignant qui fait preuve d'esprit critique lui dira probablement que non, ce n'est pas bien. You’re not thinking critically because you don’t agree with me. Vous n'avez pas l'esprit critique parce que vous n'êtes pas d'accord avec moi. Similarly with dialoguing, I went to their website Simon Fraser University Center for Dialoguing and there’s this thing about finding consensus, being respectful and harmony in all of our communications.

Which sounds like a good idea, but again I don’t like that. If I don’t agree with you, I’m going to tell you and people can disagree with me. Although, some people’s comments here are usually along the lines of you stupid, old, white, conservative idiot, whatever. Bien que les commentaires de certaines personnes ici soient généralement du type "vous êtes stupide, vieux, blanc, idiot conservateur, etc. I get some of those. J'en reçois quelques-uns. I wouldn’t say usually, but you get some of those. Je ne dirais pas qu'il s'agit d'une habitude, mais il y en a. If I criticize Justin Trudeau someone will say, oh, you must hate him. I don’t hate him, I just don’t happen to like his policies. Je ne le déteste pas, mais il se trouve que je n'aime pas ses politiques. I’m not carried away by Justin Trudeau, but I don’t hate him personally. ||carried away|||||||||| Je ne suis pas emballé par Justin Trudeau, mais je ne le déteste pas personnellement. I’d probably like him. Il me plairait probablement. If he came to dinner we’d have a great time, probably. S'il venait dîner, nous passerions probablement un bon moment. Anyway, dialoguing, the idea is that we’re going to find this common ground. Quoi qu'il en soit, en dialoguant, l'idée est que nous allons trouver un terrain d'entente.

For whatever reason, a friend of mine and I were going to this function organized by Simon Fraser University where we’re going to dialogue about stuff. |||||||||||||event||||Simon Fraser University|||||||| Pour une raison que j'ignore, un ami et moi devions nous rendre à cette manifestation organisée par l'université Simon Fraser, où nous allions discuter de choses et d'autres. So they organized us around tables and then this student of this Center for Dialoguing explained to us ordinary citizens that now we must learn to dialogue. Ils nous ont donc organisés autour de tables et cet étudiant du Centre pour le dialogue nous a expliqué, à nous citoyens ordinaires, que nous devions maintenant apprendre à dialoguer. It’s this new, better, more productive way of communicating, respect, harmony and all the rest of it. So we sat around a table and were engaged in this exercise of writing down random thoughts in response to questions and stuff like that and then the student who was sort of chairing our little table would summarize. |||||||||||activity||||||||||||||||||||||||||| Nous nous sommes donc assis autour d'une table et nous nous sommes livrés à cet exercice consistant à écrire des pensées aléatoires en réponse à des questions et à des choses de ce genre, puis l'étudiant qui présidait en quelque sorte notre petite table faisait un résumé. We were talking about multiculturalism and just about everybody at our table, most of whom were immigrants, said they really want for themselves and their children to assimilate into the Canadian mainstream.

That’s what they all said. But the student there, she wrote down we all think it’s really valuable that in Canada we have multiculturalism which respects diversity and all this stuff. Mais l'étudiante qui était là a écrit que nous pensons tous que le multiculturalisme au Canada, qui respecte la diversité et toutes ces choses, est très important. Which is fine to have as an opinion, but that was not the summary of the views at our table. Subsequently, at lunch I sat down with a student who had harangued us on the importance of harmony, respectful communication and dialoguing and so we were talking about multiculturalism. ||||||||||| lectured|||||||||||||||||

Now, I have the view that whatever people do privately, whatever religion they profess privately, whatever languages they’re interested in privately, whether it be the language or culture of their heritage call it or whether it be some other culture or language that’s entirely up to them, but in a country like Canada with so many immigrants we shouldn’t be encouraging people to be different. |||||||||||||declare belief in||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| Je suis d'avis que quoi que les gens fassent en privé, quelle que soit la religion qu'ils professent en privé, quelles que soient les langues qui les intéressent en privé, qu'il s'agisse de la langue ou de la culture de leur héritage ou d'une autre culture ou langue, c'est à eux de décider, mais dans un pays comme le Canada, qui compte tant d'immigrants, nous ne devrions pas encourager les gens à être différents. We’re not going to force them to assimilate, but the things we have in common -- that includes a lot of things that were there before the immigrants arrived, the way we communicate, our languages, our sports, different customs -- we should make as attractive as possible so that immigrants actually want to assimilate. Nous n'allons pas les forcer à s'assimiler, mais les choses que nous avons en commun - ce qui inclut beaucoup de choses qui existaient avant l'arrivée des immigrants, la façon dont nous communiquons, nos langues, nos sports, nos différentes coutumes - nous devrions les rendre aussi attrayantes que possible pour que les immigrants veuillent réellement s'assimiler.

Not force them to assimilate, but assimilate. As has been the case with my family and with many of the people I know, they’re just happy to be Canadian. So I more or less explained this to him and this guy when he heard that sort of attacks me.

You bigot! |prejudiced person How can you say that, blah, blah, blah? Here’s a guy who probably speaks one language, has a very limited knowledge of the world and of history, but he’s been given this very small amount of ideology about diversity and multiculturalism, which is fine. He can have his point of view, but having lectured us on dialoguing to then jump at me with accusations of being a bigot to me again demonstrates that dialoguing, in effect, is a code word for saying we must all agree with the established politically-correct position. |||||||||||||||||||||||prejudiced person|||||||||||||||||||||||| Il peut avoir son point de vue, mais le fait qu'il nous ait fait la leçon sur le dialogue pour ensuite m'accuser d'être bigot démontre une fois de plus que le dialogue est en fait un mot de code pour dire que nous devons tous être d'accord avec la position politiquement correcte établie. In fact, there was a student at that Center for Dialoguing who also didn’t like the sort of group think, forced think, politically- correct atmosphere and so I said I’ll come up and give a talk.

When I was up there talking to the students it was obvious that the majority of the students, I would say 60% of the student, even more so the professor, were not about respect for other people’s points of view, but imposing the correct point of view. Lorsque j'ai discuté avec les étudiants, il était évident que la majorité d'entre eux, je dirais même 60 %, et plus encore le professeur, ne cherchaient pas à respecter les points de vue des autres, mais à imposer le bon point de vue. So when I hear the words critical thinking and dialoguing I tend to be a little skeptical. Thank you for listening, bye for now. Merci d'avoir écouté, au revoir pour l'instant.